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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Open Letter from Autors and Entertainers in Support of JKR

281 replies

Igneococcus · 27/09/2020 07:15

In the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d714149e-003d-11eb-a6ce-737681864bdd?shareToken=522b280f5312e063be007bba64a0e96d

Here is the letter (a few down the list):
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2e240198-fe6a-11ea-a6ce-737681864bdd?shareToken=8bcca8afb981c27e32894e05e7776f41

And the signatories:

We wish JK Rowling well and stand in solidarity with her.
Ian McEwan, author; Lionel Shriver, author; Griff Rhys Jones, actor; Graham Linehan, writer; Maureen Chadwick, writer; Andrew Davies, writer; Frances Barber, actress; Craig Brown, writer; Alexander Armstrong, actor; Amanda Craig, writer; Philip Hensher, writer; Susan Hill, writer; Jane Thynne, writer; Ben Miller, actor; Simon Fanshawe, writer; James Dreyfus, actor; Frances Welch, writer; Francis Wheen, writer; Arthur Matthews, writer; Aminatta Forna, writer; Joan Smith, writer; Nick Cohen, journalist; Kath Gotts, composer & lyricist; Ann McManus, writer; Eileen Gallagher, writer & producer; Jimmy Mulville, producer; Lizzie Roper, actress; Stella O’Malley, author; Nina Paley, animator; Julie Bindel, journalist; Abigail Shrier, journalist; Rachel Rooney, author; Jane Harris, writer; Tatsuya Ishida, cartoonist; Lisa Marchiano, author; Zuby, musician and author; Debbie Hayton, journalist; Gillian Philip, Author, Jonny Best, musician; Manick Govinda, arts consultant; Russell Celyn Jones, writer; Magi Gibson, writer; Victoria Whitworth, writer; Dr Mez Packer, writer; Grace Carley, producer; Sam Leith, journalist; Malcolm Clark, television producer-director; Shirley Wishart, musician; Charlotte Delaney, writer; Nehanda Ferguson, musician; Justin Hill, writer; Trezza Azzopardi, writer; Birdy Rose, artist; Jess de Wahls, textile artist; Mo Lovatt, writer; Simon Edge, novelist; Tom Stoppard, playwright; and Amanda Smyth, writer

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 01/10/2020 22:26

In the world of publishing and, in particular, in the world of children's books, there is a huge amount of bitter envy for JKR and her success and her fortune.

That's so disappointing. Why are people so crap? I have a friend who got published last year and she said it was a shock to the system to realise the reality of the industry. There seem to be a lot of very unhappy writers out there. I do appreciate it's a tough industry but it doesn't cost anything to be happy for people who are successful. The more female writers selling books and doing well, the better, surely?

Childrenofthestones · 01/10/2020 22:42

Not one fecking stand up.
Quite lucrative those Uni gigs aren't they.
Not surprised though as the industry is uber left wing where you can lose your career for telling one (quite funny) Brexit joke.

Goosefoot · 02/10/2020 02:44

@queenofknives

It’s been my experience that a lot of my female writer friends are the first and most eager to join in the witch burning.

This is my experience too. I still don't really understand why. They could just keep quiet - I know lots who just don't say anything. But those who are burning books and witches - I've come to suspect they are just really fucking stupid, actually. What else explains it? Although I suppose the other element is that the louder and more angry you are about 'trans rights!!!' on twitter, the more followers you get, and the higher your profile, so maybe for some it's just pure fuck you ambition.

I would tend to think that they are similar to other non-writer women who take the same line, which seem to be a significant group. Not so much online, but in person I have met more women who take that view than men.

I'm not sure why either but it doesn't seem to be just about being kind. It does seem to be at least in part about having a strong sense of themselves as being on the right side of history and progressive and non-bigoted. Which may be similar in some ways, but I don't think it is quite the same.

AnxiousAdventurer · 02/10/2020 08:48

@queenofknives

It’s been my experience that a lot of my female writer friends are the first and most eager to join in the witch burning.

This is my experience too. I still don't really understand why. They could just keep quiet - I know lots who just don't say anything. But those who are burning books and witches - I've come to suspect they are just really fucking stupid, actually. What else explains it? Although I suppose the other element is that the louder and more angry you are about 'trans rights!!!' on twitter, the more followers you get, and the higher your profile, so maybe for some it's just pure fuck you ambition.

Feel so very depressed this morning - seeing women writers I'm friends with on FB declaring they are taking out subscriptions to Mslexia to support its brave and principled stand etc etc congratulating themselves on all the love they are showing.

These are people who take seriously the most subtle tropes suggesting any kinds of discrimination etc etc, twist themselves into knots over cultural appropriation, but when it comes to calling out the most overt, blatant, dehumanising and graphic abusive language against JKR ... oh no.

I just don't understand it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/10/2020 09:02

I'm not sure why either but it doesn't seem to be just about being kind. It does seem to be at least in part about having a strong sense of themselves as being on the right side of history and progressive and non-bigoted. Which may be similar in some ways, but I don't think it is quite the same.

I agree. It's a false narrative they've adopted.

MondayYogurt · 02/10/2020 09:04

Kotaku website really going hard with the defamation here.
I wonder why? Let's just check out who the editor is....
BINGO

Open Letter from Autors and Entertainers in Support of JKR
Open Letter from Autors and Entertainers in Support of JKR
SmallPug · 02/10/2020 09:06

Same Anxious. So many writers / editors love a story about discrimination of women in a different time or place, but can't see it right in front of their noses. Losing respect for so many people.

Siablue · 02/10/2020 09:12

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I'm not sure why either but it doesn't seem to be just about being kind. It does seem to be at least in part about having a strong sense of themselves as being on the right side of history and progressive and non-bigoted. Which may be similar in some ways, but I don't think it is quite the same.

I agree. It's a false narrative they've adopted.

I agree. Someone posted under Dan Snow’s Tweet do you worry that you might be on the wrong side of history.

I think that is ironic as the one thing history gives you is that however right you are once you start enforcing this with violence you start to become very wrong.

I was pleased to see Tom Holland on the list too. The Christmas gifts for the history lovers in the family are sorted.

This has seriously made me question whether some of the people who worry about having the ‘right’ opinions actually believe in any of it of if it is just about them.

AbsintheFriends · 02/10/2020 09:16

I'm not sure why either but it doesn't seem to be just about being kind. It does seem to be at least in part about having a strong sense of themselves as being on the right side of history and progressive and non-bigoted. Which may be similar in some ways, but I don't think it is quite the same.

I agree. It's broken out like a rash amongst my 40 something writer friends and I really believe that the Karen trope has a lot to do with it. We wouldn't want to be one of those older women, would we? With bad haircuts and unfashionable opinions? God no. We're still cool and relevant and totally down with the kids.

TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 02/10/2020 09:27

Charlotte Mendelson has tweeted in support of the other letter. I'm so disappointed. And also spotting names of others I respect supporting Mslexia. I suppose I'm just grateful to know their position. And ultimately, the names supporting JK are such huge names, that counts for far more. I swear some peoples' brains have fallen out their ears.

AnxiousAdventurer · 02/10/2020 10:23

@SmallPug

Same Anxious. So many writers / editors love a story about discrimination of women in a different time or place, but can't see it right in front of their noses. Losing respect for so many people.
Yes. Really dispiriting. Even people I thought were open to discussion, now taking positions on this I can't understand at all.
Lordamighty · 02/10/2020 14:01

It was the witch hunters/burners who were on the wrong side of history. Trans-washing misogyny isn’t working anymore, we can still see it.

purplepizzabunny · 02/10/2020 17:57

Amanda Craig wished both Elizabeth Day and Kiran Millwood Hargrave well on the publication of their new books. Talk about gracious and dignified. It's so depressing though. Tons of men signed that letter and it's only a woman who loses a position.

queenofknives · 02/10/2020 18:05

I agree, it's definitely about more than just being kind. Some women are incredibly angry and hostile towards other women. I guess it ticks a lot of boxes. Right side of history - tick. Not one of those awful unsexy feminists - tick. Men approve of me - tick. Don't have to risk getting cancelled - tick. Might make me really popular and all I have to do is sit on my phone sending shitty messages to women - tick. Addicted to outrage on social media - tick. Sheer stupidity and inability to do the most basic critical thinking - also tick.

Goosefoot · 03/10/2020 02:02

I wonder about approval from men - lots of men think it's completely cracked.

I was thinking it's more about getting approval from the right men, but then I thought - no - I think it's about not being on the same side as the wrong kind of men. Men who maybe voted for Brexit, or whatever.

DidoLamenting · 03/10/2020 02:34

[quote Childrenofthestones]Not one fecking stand up.
Quite lucrative those Uni gigs aren't they.
Not surprised though as the industry is uber left wing where you can lose your career for telling one (quite funny) Brexit joke.

[/quote] That was quite funny. In fact as one of the comments on YouTube said "The most I've laughed at stand up in a while"
AnxiousAdventurer · 03/10/2020 10:33

@Goosefoot

I wonder about approval from men - lots of men think it's completely cracked.

I was thinking it's more about getting approval from the right men, but then I thought - no - I think it's about not being on the same side as the wrong kind of men. Men who maybe voted for Brexit, or whatever.

Yes, some people think because Piers Morgan says a thing they must automatically take the other side (even though that would currently make them keen supporters of Johnson's Covid policy, for example).
AnxiousAdventurer · 03/10/2020 10:34

I do get the feeling looking at the lists of names that the men are actually more sensible that this than the women.

DidoLamenting · 03/10/2020 11:42

On the "other list" the only authors I like are Winterston, Patrick Ness and Leigh Bardugo- (and Bardugo is very, very variable in quality)

I see the dreadful Sally Rooney is on it (I hated Normal People). There are a few others I wouldn't read if you paid me.

I'm a bit surprised that Shirley Hughes signed it.

SmallPug · 03/10/2020 11:53

Shirley Hughes?! Shirley Hughes? God. How depressing! Mind you, did I hear she was involved with the Rachel Rooney bullying? Now I can’t read Alfie to my kids without thinking about this. I feel like this issue has become all consuming and I want to switch off sometimes but I just cant.

ArabellaScott · 03/10/2020 11:58

I think it was Shirley Hughes' daughter 're Rachel Rooney.

SmallPug · 03/10/2020 12:16

This whole atmosphere is really strange. It feels like the issue has reached fever pitch within some industries/ groups, and yet the rest of the population don’t have a clue. Which in some ways is good and others worrying, as they will probably get swept along by whoever is shouting the loudest.

DidoLamenting · 03/10/2020 12:19

@ArabellaScott

I think it was Shirley Hughes' daughter 're Rachel Rooney.
Yes it was -Clara Vulliamy.
highame · 03/10/2020 12:29

smalllpug they don't want this out with everyone. There's an awful lot of collusion (sorry for the conspiracyitus)

DidoLamenting · 03/10/2020 12:56

Slightly off topic but I never particularly liked Shirley Hughes' Alfie books. The first one was written in 1981 so de rigueur reading for middle class parents in the early 90s.

This Guardian article explaining why the writer loves them actually identifies why I dislike them. I didn't "identify" (if you'll forgive the term) with this depiction of motherhood or family life at all.

www.theguardian.com/books/2005/jun/29/buildingachildrenslibrary.booksforchildrenandteenagers