Witches in children's books

[TotorosFurryBehind]

Now I'm a mother I feel really uncomfortable that it is acceptable to have witches in children's books. I feel like it's part of a historical tradition of vilifying and persecuting wise women and I don't understand why it's not seen in the same way as giving children Golliwog dolls to play with.

Is this feeling rational? I never used to feel this way before I had a daughter.

Aren't a lot of witches in children's books forces for good these days?

Really loved 'Wicked'. Tells it from the witches perspective. Turned it around. Great song. too. "Defying Gravity'.

Not all witches are negative portrayals! Look at the Worst Witch, or the Harry Potter books.

Depends on the witch. I draw a lot of feminist inspiration from Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax. My daughter thinks I’m a witch as I can do ‘magic’.

But yes, the traditional witch stories are a bit grim, and not something I would choose to read to my children.

I love Bethan Woolvin's retelling of Hansel and Gretel. The has made the witch good, but then the tables turn and H&G get their comeuppance because they are two little shits it's utterly brilliant

My mother never liked me to read The Witches by Roald Dahl because she thought it was misogynistic. At the time I thought she was being ridiculous but now I can see her point.

Historically yes, that seems accurate. Not a book but Kiki's Delivery Service gives the kind of slant to witches that I prefer.

Dahl's writing is riddled with misogyny. I chose never to use his work in the classroom for that reason.

I feel like it's part of a historical tradition of vilifying and persecuting wise women and I don't understand why it's not seen in the same way as giving children Golliwog dolls to play with

I don't know of any works that give Golliwogs the space to be nuanced characters - they may exist - whereas there are plenty of works that present 'witches' in a positive light.

I think you're right to be wary about the portrayal of witches - but you will easily find work that counteracts those stereotypes. (The witch is a more popular figure than the Golliwog in myth/folklore - you can't avoid it - but you can offer up plenty of alternatives to the 'evil woman' trope.)

Winnie the witch is a personal hero of mine!

Sophie in Howl's moving castle is pretty awesome.

I think it’s an interesting point. Re positive gollywog characters (feels weird even typing that), we had a much loved book called Little Black Sambo which obviously drew on crude stereotypes visually but the character was a cool little boy who diced with death and won (and some tigers turned into butter in the process). It was a great story though obviously it had to go.

You have a point re the 'wicked witches' in traditional fairy tales. But latterly they're powerful girls and women - sometimes old women. Mostly a force for good.

And also a force for not giving a crap about anyone else's opinions, which is possibly the best thing about witches.

I'd take a witch over a princess every day of the week, including the sabbath.

I also think the portrayal of witches is becoming more positive.
I loved the JKR This Witch won't Burn tweet earlier in the week (Not sure of the exact wording)
I feel it is portrayed as they can't keep strong independent woman down.

I like books both with wicked witches and other types of witches. Just like I like books with evil male wizards and positive male wizards.

Yes, I can see what you mean, OP. However, I think in childhood there is a huge need for certain archetypal figures, especially the 'baddies'. I think it might be worth adding in more of the 'good witch' type of character than trying to do away with the 'bad witch', whitch seems to tap into some very deep rooted gleeful fascination. It's probably even a mother archetype, isn't it?

I have a lovely picture book called 'Babbit' with a really cute, if slightly scary witch in it. Ooh, and there's Dorrit, too.

Cressida Cowell’s Wizards of Once has a Kingwitch.

@ArabellaScott

Yes, I can see what you mean, OP. However, I think in childhood there is a huge need for certain archetypal figures, especially the 'baddies'. I think it might be worth adding in more of the 'good witch' type of character than trying to do away with the 'bad witch', whitch seems to tap into some very deep rooted gleeful fascination. It's probably even a mother archetype, isn't it?

I have a lovely picture book called 'Babbit' with a really cute, if slightly scary witch in it. Ooh, and there's Dorrit, too.

Yes, these kinds of archetypes always exist in pairs. You can have the powerful female figure who is full of wisdom and life-giving. Or the evil queen who magically sucks the life out of young virgins so they appear young and beautiful themselves. Etc.

Both kinds of stories are compelling when they are well told because they are both true representations.

There are so many different kinds of witches in literature, and history. They represent so many different things. The wicked witch trope is infuriating, but it's utterly superficial. I always found witches thrilling as a child because in the books I read they seemed to weald such unearthly and insurmountable power. I enjoy reading The Everyday Witch by Liz Martinez with my girls. There's a lovely message at the end.

My dd and many of her friends love witches. Even the wicked ones, although most of the witches they read and watch are good witches (Mildred Hubble etc). Witches and magic feature in so many of their games and make believe, including some darker storylines.

My theory is that they are drawn to them because witches can be good/bad/a mix of the two but are always powerful and interesting. Although some modern fictional witches are pretty, many are not and it has no bearing on their power or on how interesting they are. I personally wouldn't want to see witches disappear from children's fiction!

My theory is that they are drawn to them because witches can be good/bad/a mix of the two but are always powerful and interesting

They're a wonderful antidote to the expectations placed on girls to be good and kind. That's why JKR's post is so powerful, they're women who may be good, may be bad, but don't care what you think either way.

I appreciate that the historical context is way more complicated and difficult.

I really like Which Witch? Even though the context isn’t very feminist, because it’s so tongue in cheek about magical beings. Main character is a good witch trying to pretend to be a bad one.