The latest from the Guardian

[zanahoria]

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/24/liberals-stand-up-trans-rights-transgender

I see nothing liberal in sexist stereotypes

honestly reading stuff like this makes me sad and so frustrated because it did not have to be like this!!!

had stonewall not screamed #nodebate and refused to even vaguely consider women's concerns, had TWAW not been parroted as a response to every question,had every single objection no matter how reasonable raised by women not been answered with 'fuck off bigot', had stonewall not hid behind the fire shield of TRA on social media instead of condeming their threats, had there been even an attempt to discuss the viability of third spaces, we wouldnt be here.

it could have been so bloody different but we had to fight every single inch along the way whilst being told we were transphobic bitches who deserved to die in grease fires.

and so here we are....

The thing is, I have no issues with trans people having rights.

I do have massive concerns about safeguarding. Something that Juliet doesn't mention even once.

The concerns of natal women are apparently not worth discussing.

The concerns of women are apparently not worth discussing.

No - as we’ve said a billion times trans ppl are fully entitled to human rights, what they can’t have (if born male) are women’s rights

I don’t think ppl raised with Male privilege see safeguarding in the same way....

It's sad that Guardian readers ingest this stuff day after day.

I met someone who worked at the University of Budapest who described what had developed over there pre ban. The place had become a magnet for extreme sexualities from all over Europe and parents were demanding help and protection for their kids who were getting sucked into extreme abuse whilst supposedly being educated.

I’m at the bit that that talks about single sex spaces and making “anyone arbiters of our identity”- which makes no sense. The article talks about trans people but single sex spaces are NOT for the opposite sex, despite how they dress, identify or what medical treatment they may have had.

Posters like to come on here and say that third spaces don’t work- then tell us there are so many people who support trans people. Where’s the support when a uses a unisex changing room or toilet? Surely these allies will be happy to use a third space too to protect their trans siblings?

As has been said upthread, if women hadn’t been abused for saying no, if women’s voices hadn’t been excluded from the start this isn’t where we’d be now.

The concerns of women are apparently not worth discussing.
testing, I did consider writing that, but such is the extent of linguistic capture that I thought I should probably specify.

It's fucking depressing, to have to constantly struggle to make yourself clear when the language you have spoken from infancy has been remade by a small, opinionated group in such a way as to obscure the definition of the sex class to which you belong.

Agree. I have no problem with people being transgender or non-binary, whatever that means.

My entire issue is that the word woman means adult human female and when I see a news report about a woman I want it to be a woman. And only women should be in women's prisons, only women in women sports etc.

That some men don't want to be recognised as the sex they are is not women's problem to sort out.

If Juliet Jacques was happy with being known as a transwoman there would be no lie, and I would be happy to support that.

But sorry, the word woman is taken.

Can't believe I used to trust the Guardian just a few months ago, my eyes have really been opened (was toying with the idea of saying till I woke up ).

Earlier this year, leaked proposals from Liz Truss, the minister for women and equalities, suggested that the government would not just ignore public opinion on the Gender Recognition Act reforms, but might attempt a more thoroughgoing bar on trans people accessing single-sex spaces, potentially making anyone the legal arbiters of our identities.

No. What you want is to be the arbiter of OUR identities. It's quite astonishing, the total lack of any regard for the views of female people over males commandeering our spaces, and calling it a 'right'.

This article was amended on 25 September 2020 to remove a reference to the Equality Act 2010.

That's interesting. Wonder what the original reference was?

The concerns of natal women are apparently not worth discussing.

They never are.

That's interesting. Wonder what the original reference was?

I would guess (because it's a trope) when Juliet was listing the various things which were granted by the EA in 2010 like protection from discrimination in the workplace etc, Juliet suggested that access to women's spaces for MTFs was part of that. It was not.