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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help fact-check this letter to Liz Truss from 7000+ women

85 replies

testing987654321 · 19/09/2020 08:54

This letter has been signed by many women, of all walks of life. I think it's factually wrong in many places, anyone else willing to point out errors?

liztrussopenletter.wordpress.com/?fbclid=IwAR1lLPyNAtAyxI7iJYT6ULNGduWhuaThDncWLwmNDBBpva6_PM2cwjgso-4

OP posts:
EyesOpening · 19/09/2020 21:25

@NothingTraLaLa

This purports to be a letter to Liz Truss and yet ends, right at the bottom of the page, with the statement "Liz Truss is wrong". I am not sure that is the best way to persuade her of anything, if that is indeed their aim.
that's exactly what I was thinking!
stumbledin · 19/09/2020 21:55

I cant quite remember at which stage of the will Liz Truss make an anouncement or not, but a few months ago.

Agree that the letter is wrong in so many ways.

But do not think it is worth giving them the oxygen of publicity by refering to it.

It is just a compilation of "facts" from Pink News and Stonewall.

Okay it was part of the orchestrated over reaction to Liz Truzz saying that the EA allows for women only services, and that under 18s should not be eligible for surgery. www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/17/liz-truss-gender-recognition-act-reform-cis-women-open-letter-trans-equality/

EyesOpening · 19/09/2020 22:14

@CharlieParley

This is despite the fact that several countries have implemented similar reforms to their gender recognition laws without any negative impact to cis women whatsoever.

There is evidence, from every single country that adopted self-id in law and policies, that these have been used for purposes other than the intended.

Mexico: men undermine the democratic process seeking to grant equal representation to women by identifying as women;

US: rape, sexual assaults and harassment, intimidation, physical violence and aggression against women in prison (several law suits), in shelters and refuges for homeless and/or battered women, removal of fair competition in high scholl and college sport leading to the loss of opportunity and scholarships for girls; increase in voyerism and assault in sanitary facilities and changing rooms;

Spain: self-id abused by men tried for domestic violence offences to gain access to their children;

Ireland: a number of exemptions for privacy, now that self-id is being utilised by males who identify as trans and who have not fully (or at all) transitioned, issues are starting to arise;

Norway: self-id used by fully intact male to shower and undress in communal women-only changing area. When challenged by female user, management agrees this is not ok and communicates this to the male. Who does not care, does it again, is challenged again, then sues the woman challenging him for transphobia, discrimination and harassment. Three year journey through various courts results in judgement for the woman. In the judgement, the judge criticises the badly thought out law. Currently the Norwegian government is trying to push through an amendment to their hate crime laws that will make a fair, equitable and above all public discussion about how self-id harms women's rights all but impossible;

Canada: much discussed here, problems in prison, refuges, rape crisis support. Problems with women being sued for offering services specific to women for women only;

UK: self-id policies causing problems in all aspects of life that impact men and women, boys and girls differently.

There's many more examples from other countries, too.

whilst personally, I agree, on some of those examples, they will argue that they "are" women so it's not. The better ones are like the Mexico one because it was clear they were taking advantage www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-election-idUSKBN1ID03B
EyesOpening · 19/09/2020 22:18

whilst personally, I agree, on some of those examples, they will argue that they "are" women so it's not
I didn't word that very well - personally I agree with you. On some of those examples, however, they will argue that because they "are" women, then "women" aren't negatively impacted

Dreeple · 19/09/2020 23:58

Some list of nutters under that!

PotholeParadise · 20/09/2020 00:20

@carefulvulvadriver

I’m wondering how they policed the signatories to the letter to ensure the undersigned were indeed only “cisgendered women”. Biological essentialist gatekeeping transexclusion!
They didn't.

The letter claims to be from 'cis gender women' keen to assure the government there are no problems, but people on twitter have started going through that list and some of those signatories don't identify as cis at all. Grin

LucretiaBourgeois · 20/09/2020 00:44

@gardenbird48

Sorry me again. Back from the depths - apparently, on a name check sample of some of the signatories the ‘c_ women’ include d_ q__s , non c__ women (they/them pronouns in bio) and non UK residents. Hmm
At least one on the main list describes themself as queer and has he/him pronouns. Whatever they identify as, they can't really be a cis woman. When the letter stresses so hard that that's what the signatories are you'd have thought a bit of gatekeeping would be a good idea.

Or have we reached the point that if you identify as a cis woman you are one, whatever your pronouns? I get so confused...

queenofknives · 20/09/2020 09:09

Has anyone actually fact-checked the number of signatories? Because I went into the excel spreadsheet to look for names of people I know and it didn't seem like there were 7000+ names on there. To be fair, I might have missed some because I'm not the most handy with excel.

ArabellaScott · 20/09/2020 09:39

The scariest thing about this letter is the spreadsheet tabs, tbh. Excel [shudders].

merrymouse · 20/09/2020 09:52

Don't blame excel.

It should be possible to put a list of 7 thousand names into a simple sheet without tabs and just add a column for classifications.

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