Self ID ~ TRA ~ GRC ~ MLR ~ KYC ~ PEP .... Interpol .... random connections

[ListeningQuietly]

People who get a GRC are allowed to have their birth certificate changed.
So they are no longer legally the person they were born.
They can then get a passport in their new identity.

If GRCs are allowed on the basis of self ID,
it will be a simple process to completely reinvent oneself at least once a year.

When banks deal with customers, they are required to obey the KYC ( know your customer ) part of the MLR ( Money Laundering regulations ) to highlight whether the customer is a PEP ( potentially exposed person ) more likely to be involved in fraud or the funding of terrorism.

Have the Police and law enforcement and legal systems set in place strict protocols to ensure that Self ID is not used by criminals to hide their identities for all sorts of nefarious purposes ?
If not why not?
If so, are they published so we can check that they will protect everybody ?

How does one get to have two names and two passports?

I don't think it makes any difference if you're trans or not. In this country we are legally allowed to change our names and there is no obligation for that name change to be recorded anywhere. When we got married DH and I decided to change both our surnames to a combination of our former names, and I also legally changed my name to a version of my birth name that I'd been using as a nickname for years.

I changed it via a deed poll which cost me £30 via the internet. Not a government thing. Just a web company which offers a fancy certificate. Probably not recorded anywhere. That certificate then allowed me to change my name with my bank, on my driving license, and with my passport. Even eventually with PayPal although that was more hassle.

Once I had my new passport and driving license I could use those to open new bank accounts.

I know lots of people who have done the same thing - to make a fresh start after leaving an abusive relationship, to take the name of a loved step-parent instead of a shit birth parent who was never around, due to a change of religion - loads of stuff. Trans people aren't using some kind of secret loophole. They are using the exact same rules for name change as everyone else.

I like your new name, 9824.

I like your new name, 9824

Total name change fail. I changed it intending to make a really sensitive post, thought better of it and then tried to change it back and failed. Oh well! Back to the profile and settings page!

9824
Indeed many people change their names
but they do NOT change their birth certificate

and THAT is the problem with the TRA demands

same as the request to have deed poll records hidden ....

All other name changes clearly and publicly record
"was" and "is now"
and your bank will record the name changes on an account

but opening a new account with a set of documents based on self ID name and gender change
will get exploited by criminals

hence why I'm amazed that the police and the CPS are not pushing back against it

but opening a new account with a set of documents based on self ID name and gender change will get exploited by criminals

We all know that would never happen.

JaneAustenWouldHateThis
It would be possible to have two or even more passports if you had dual nationality. If you were female, it would be possible to have them under different names.

Oh, crikey.

Yes, you're right.

Though, of course, that would never happen, OP.

But how often does anyone ask for your birth certificate? And where do you think this big central record of deed polls is? Because I'm very sure there isn't one. I know at least one person who made their own deed poll certificate because they didn't want to pay £30.

You think name changes are being tracked far far more frequently than they currently are, and are creating a bit of a tin foil hat conspiracy theory as a result.

I repeat. I have a bank account in my new name. No one asked to see my birth certificate. All the ID they wanted was in my new name. They didn't know I had changed my name by deed poll because that was years ago.

I'm honestly quite glad that is possible and we're not living in some kind of "Big Brother Is Watching You" police state just yet.

9824
I do not have a birth certificate so that's easy
but opening bank accounts with a new bank requires providing a LOT of ID
I no longer even try

however if I could self ID as a bloke called John with no past history and ask for a shiny new set of documents
I could open accounts and take out credit cards
with no controls

the MLR rules are a nightmare for all in the finance industry
and the sooner that the possible impact of Self ID on them is realised
the more the worm will turn

Right, help me, a bleeding heart liberal arty farty type, understand this so I can relay it to DH:

Male person is involved in organised crime, convicted for serious fraud and jailed for 15 years.

Towards the end of their incarceration they realise that they have had gender identity issues and lives "as a woman" for two years in jail. Living "as a woman" for this person means wearing a wig and make up and they attend GIC appointments with prison officers and start hormone treatment.

They are released from (the female wing of the) prison and apply for a GRC in their new name as they meet the criteria for self ID.

Using the GRC they get a new passport, driving license and birth certificate. There is now no trace of their sex, former name or conviction, it is as if they are a completely new person as of the date on their GRC.

This person is quickly pulled back into organised crime and realises they can launder ill-gotten money with their new, clean identity.

They want to purchase property with illegally gained funds. The money laundering officer runs the usual checks and finds that the client is a pillar of society since the date of the GRC, but beyond that there is no record of anything at all.

If the MLO refuses to act for the client because they can't verify the client's history they are committing a hate crime because turning the client down on the basis of their trans status, which is a protected characteristic, is against the law.

If the MLO acts for the client they are complicit in laundering dirty money through their firm, which is against the law.

Either way, the MLO is personally liable and could be charged.

Am I understanding the issue correctly?

9284, didn't the bank want to know if you'd had a bank account before? And with which bank and under what name? I don't really understand money laundering but I've heard it's a problem and there are laws against it - yet it sounds from what you're saying there are massive loopholes.

(I bloody love your name - it's like you're a secret agent!)

Vivarium
Your interpretation matches my reading of the MLR rules and hence why I started the thread

Great, thanks, Listening.

He's WFH, I'll collar him when he next emerges for a coffee.

Of course, this would never happen. The difference between this never happening and the documented flashings, sexual assaults and stealth photographing that happens when male bodied people access single sex spaces in order to abuse women is that with this scenario there would never be any proof of the money laundering ever happening.

Which none of these things ever have, or ever will.

All this talk of passports and nefarious purposes is a bit "Day of the Jackie" isn't it?

Ahem. Jackal, perhaps.

Ah, vivarium. You're missing the important part: Anyone who applies for something using new ID is required by law to declare name changes. If they failed to do so they'd be committing a crime.

So, obviously nobody would ever fail to declare their names, especially criminals, so it's all fine. See?

I knew one specific offender who had a GRC, and a quashed life sentence, but was on the sex offenders register for life. Also continued to have a probation officer visit every few weeks, and had restrictions on /police keeping an eye on joining Leeds gay scheme's community safety groups - years after release.
They use(d) a different surname professionally (and possibly with housing) to their current legal surname. Legally still known by the surname given at birth, and for sentencing, but with a different first name.

@Changednameforthisoneyeah

I knew one specific offender who had a GRC, and a quashed life sentence, but was on the sex offenders register for life. Also continued to have a probation officer visit every few weeks, and had restrictions on /police keeping an eye on joining Leeds gay scheme's community safety groups - years after release. They use(d) a different surname professionally (and possibly with housing) to their current legal surname. Legally still known by the surname given at birth, and for sentencing, but with a different first name.

Oh, just to clarify there was never any implication of money laundering with this person, just convictions of manslaughter (rather than murder - I think) and then attempted rape almost immediately after they were released from that sentence.

^ I did wonder at a couple of their jobs after I found out their history - lots of night shift manager spots at McDonald's etc.

I had vaguely thought stuff like that would need a DRB/might involve working with staff one to one who are vulnerable adults or under 18, and might need safeguarding checks etc .

I don't know if one would have been required though, or if one was, whether they would have either not got the full info or decided it wasn't anything to bother about.

Sorry that's a bit tangential but I think it's all relevant..

I had a tax client who was under the witness protection scheme with a false name.
As I had to do MLR checks on them I asked them for their original name and checked it as well

To do that to a Trans person would have been a hate crime

While we have the current GRC and ID controls, it is manageable.
If Stonewall get their way and its all on Self ID, it soon won't be.

I do wonder how financial institutions and law enforcement teams are coping in those countries that have gone down the path
eg Canada

Just a reminder that the police force itself doesn't have a great track record in vetting its own staff:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3702625-Police-vetting-huge-gaps

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-49847206
35,000 police staff 'not vetted', including a now-jailed paedophile.

@JaneAustenWouldHateThis - I suppose national insurance number which would link me up to a previous identity, but a trans person would have that as well.

Apart from that they wanted a utility bill for proof of address, passport or driving license and that was it. Bank was Nationwide.

Oh, and date of birth.