'WASPI women' appeal court ruling

[GrimSisters]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54158832

I'm 41. I'd always wondered why women retired at 60 and men at 65 and have known all about the changes for years because I read the news and don't live under a rock.

Given that, at the moment, I'll get my state pension at 68, I'm struggling to understand what the problem is. Please could someone explain why having to work until 65, along with their male counterparts, is so distressing?

I thought we wanted equality? Must admit that I'm struggling to have much sympathy. I work in a relatively low paid job and have four colleagues aged between 55 and 63 who haven't complained about the situation.

If you're one of the women who has been affected by this change, I'd be interested to know what the real issue is because I'm really confused as to why it is such a massive issue.

@deydododatdodontdeydo

Remember, those of you who can't summon up any sympathy for WASPI women, that any government could do the same to you

But they have done. When I started working, retirement age for women was 60, and that's what I thought would happen.
OK, I have more notice than the WASPI women, but they had plenty.
Also, things change all the time. Men had theirs changed from 65 to 68.
Just before I married they removed married person's tax allowance.
Heck, just before I was born they removed an allowance for children (don't know what it was called, but my mother still complains about it).

'plenty'? You jest (or are unaware of some really appalling cases). I suggest you look into the facts.

Beguilingeyes, yes the same for me. The menopause has also destroyed me.

I was like the 30 somethings on this thread once, totally oblivious and probably quite dismissive about the menopause. And then it happens.

Men don’t have the menopause. Women do, and it’s absolute hell. I’m having to leave my job because of it...

They "only" had 10 years notice. My mother was affected but she thought it was fair she worked as long as men

@Pheobeasy

Not true, it was tapered. Mum retired at 62.5, mil (younger) retired at 64.2

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

Beguilingeyes, yes the same for me. The menopause has also destroyed me.

I was like the 30 somethings on this thread once, totally oblivious and probably quite dismissive about the menopause. And then it happens.

Men don’t have the menopause. Women do, and it’s absolute hell. I’m having to leave my job because of it...

And this!

I vaguely remember getting a letter about it in 1995. I think it said something along the lines of the retirement age for women would go up to 65 in 2020 but I can't find the letter to check. Nowadays it would be on line. What I took from this was that as I would be 60 in 2015, I would already have retired by then. In any case in 1995 I don't see how I could have put anything aside for a pension pot over and above what I was doing - working full time, 2 children, big mortgage payments etc, there was no extra money.

I didn't get a letter in 2011 despite what is said. But by then I was divorced and paying a bigger mortgage because I'd bought my ex out - no more I could do anyway.

Working was fairly shite in the 70s, sexism, misogyny etc - as pp above have said - I know my friend was not allowed to join the company pension scheme because at first it wasn't open to women, and then they opened it to women but only to people earning over a certain amount - but hardly any women did earn over that level so it didn't help much. I quickly learned not to wear my engagement ring at interviews, but it didn't stop the personal questions - you get the idea.

I am fortunate in that I do have a workplace pension and am limping along working part time until I can claim my state pension next summer - but I really do mean limping.

I feel sorry for the women over 60 claiming benefits - more than ever before unsurprisingly - so it is still costing the taxpayer something, and I get irritated when I read stuff like this:

davidhencke.com/2020/05/22/exclusive-the-4-6-million-men-who-retired-at-60-to-get-a-pension-top-up-paid-by-the-taxpayer/

The other thing to those of you blithely saying "10 years is ample time to prepare": when is the last time you looked really closely at your annual pension statement?

I think you'll find that even at age 30, buying in extra years (as you probably have to do if you did a postgrad degree, a professional qualification, had to re-train for a new career, had any sort of career break) is extortionately expensive. By the time you reach age 50 it is prohibitively expensive (if indeed you can buy extra year at that point).

When I changed career in my late 30s (due to redundancy and having to retrain) I had a straight choice - extra pension payments or mortgage payments. I couldn't afford both. I decided the single most important thing I could do to safeguard my future was to make sure I owned my house outright at retirement, so I chose mortgage. But my income was not such that I could do both.

@movingonup20

They "only" had 10 years notice. My mother was affected but she thought it was fair she worked as long as men

I had three years notice from the second change.

@eufycurious It’s 68 for anyone born after 1978.

This is the letter I received after the changes in 2011 - it gave me 12.5 years notice. I received a similar one post 1995 but I have since destroyed it because of the updated one.

I don’t have any pension.

I have never received any letters.

I very much doubt I would qualify for any state pension.

I am screwed

Throughout the period of changes , if you referred to the DWP website it still told you retirement age for women was 60. There was also a Time when we were told we needed 30 years and we didn’t need to make voluntary contributions, which I could have done at the time, only to discover later that it would not be cost effective to do so . Meanwhile the rules on not drawing your pension at retirement also changed with of course less favorable terms. My female partner required just past her 60 th birthday. I got mine at 63 6 months. How can that have been fair..and yes I consider myself lucky, unlike poor women that came after. We will not take this without a fight, and will continue to campaign for justice. I would be happy with the lowering of retirement age for men of course, especially now.

:11CayrolBaaaskin

@30yearstomorrow - women do have equal state pensions to men. The reduced stamp was abolished in 1977. You only need 30 years of contributions for the previous state pension (35 now).
I'm afraid @CayrolBaaaskin you're wrong on your final point. I have 42 years worth of contributions but because I retired at 62 I still 'owe' 4 years in order to receive the full amount at 66.
The main point many on here are missing is it's a class issue in the main. A lot of working class women had poorly paid jobs, if any, and couldn't afford to buy their own home let alone pay into a private pension. So many of these women are in poor health now and struggling to get to 66. We should be supporting our 'sisters' not denigrating them.

Completely agree with almost everything you said apart from it being a class issue @Oblahdeeoblahdoe. It’s a feminist issue. It sets a very dangerous precedent which younger generations of women may well discover in years to come. If the government can fuck with this it can do the same with maternity leave/pay, childcare and lots more.

Why don't you qualify for any state pension Oliversmumsarmy. Do you have a private pension. Would you qualify for pension credit?

Agree @VinylDetective but I still believe working class women suffered more with this particular issue. However, I can't believe the amount of people who think everything is equal for men and women now and there's no such thing as sexism and misogyny.

Oblahdee👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Yessss feminism is about sisterhood, not about pushing other women down!

I haven’t worked in paid employment for years.

I have never paid in a pension scheme.
Never heard of pension credits.

If you were in receipt of child benefit and your household income was below a certain level, you will have been in receipt of pension credits.

The DWP helpline is actually pretty helpful and can send you a statement of your entitlement. You just need your NI number (not even sure that’s necessary, as long as you were once assigned one). Number will be on the website.

Pretty sure you’ll be entitled to something.

If you were in receipt of child benefit and your household income was below a certain level, you will have been in receipt of pension credits

I have only ever had the £84 per month thing and Dp earned too much

Pension credits are a top up benefit for people of pension age who have under a certain amount of income whether from reduced state pension and have little or no private pension. It's means tested. You shouldn't be left with nothing to live on.

Not true, it was tapered. Mum retired at 62.5, mil (younger) retired at 64.2

Yes I acknowledged I might have misunderstood, if only people would read a thread.

Oliversmumsarny

This info is a bit confusing on this page but might help www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Basic-State-Pension/Can-I-get-Basic-State-Pension

And it maybe that you are able to claim someething ie not a pension but income support. Although this will be reduced if you a sharing your home with another adult who has an income. You can use this online calculator www.entitledto.co.uk/

I assume you are not in the UK, then? State pension ages rises to 67 by 2028, no more increases at the moment
I am in the UK. A few years ago I got a letter from HMRC stating I could collect my SP at the date which would when I reach 69 years 10 months.

Surely the point here is that even if at the start of your working life you thought you could plan or make assumptions, sometimes life comes along and takes away any choice. For instance Antiopa12, and so sorry for your loss.

Even agreeing with having an equal retirement age, the earlier more slowly graduated one might have just about been acceptable, but the later change to be implemented more sharply wasn't.

And also, both for men and women, the idea that everyone is able to go on working into their late sixties is just unreal. And for many they will be finding out that universal credit is not survivable on.

As TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince shouldn't we be working together for fairness. i agree about univesal income because the world of working is change to much that I doubt people can have a 5 day week if people are expected to work longer and longer, and more young people cant get a foot on the ladder.

By the way another unfairness is that those women who were able to retire at 60 before the changes happen do not get the same level of state pension. I think it is about £30 t0 £40 a week less. You could argue they haven't paid in as much, but how can you justify saying that a 70 year old born pre 1953(?) can somehow survive on less money per week that a 70 year old born after that.

Not forgetting my earlier post that there are women who are still not getting the money they should because of the old married women's calculation.