'WASPI women' appeal court ruling

[GrimSisters]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54158832

I'm 41. I'd always wondered why women retired at 60 and men at 65 and have known all about the changes for years because I read the news and don't live under a rock.

Given that, at the moment, I'll get my state pension at 68, I'm struggling to understand what the problem is. Please could someone explain why having to work until 65, along with their male counterparts, is so distressing?

I thought we wanted equality? Must admit that I'm struggling to have much sympathy. I work in a relatively low paid job and have four colleagues aged between 55 and 63 who haven't complained about the situation.

If you're one of the women who has been affected by this change, I'd be interested to know what the real issue is because I'm really confused as to why it is such a massive issue.

So if a women is bringing up children and not in the workplace, wtf shouldn’t her national contributions be paid? She is contributing to society.

You are being sexist. Why are you even on a feminist thread if you think like that?

Also just to keep our facts straight the pension age moves from 60 started in 2010 and age Discrimination was brought into force in 2006. So women were not being forced to retire before they could get state pensions as some pp have claimed.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince - I’m not being sexist. I don’t disagree with NI contributions being made for women with children. Nor did I say I did. I’m just pointing out that women don’t have lower state pensions because of time out for childcare.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince - I’m on a feminist thread because I’m a feminist. That doesn’t mean I should think women get a lower pension age. I don’t think that’s a feminist cause at all.

Also the equal pay act was 45 years ago. The WASPI women will have spent the vast majority of their working life after that.
Inequality was still rife in the workplace. I am younger than the WASPI women, but I remember when I was applying for my first jobs after graduating in the 1980s, sexism was absolutely overt.

I applied for a government job, and after appearing before the panel, I had a one-to-one. The older man interviewing me told me to my face that he'd never employed a woman and never would. I didn't get the job, and there were no witnesses, and besides I didn't want to make a fuss. It was just how it was then.

In the job I finally got, three of the four of us were women in a traditionally man's job. I overheard my boss telling someone from head office that he'd employed us because he could get away with paying us much less than the men he employed.

My mother worked in personnel for another company. She could see the absolute discrepancy in pay between men and women where she worked, but it was all swept under the carpet.

@WinterIsGone there is still unfortunately inequality in the workplace (Although it’s definitely better than it was). I don’t think it can be addressed by women having a lower pension age though. I think we have to address the inequality in the workplace itself.

Absolutely Winterisgone.

Some examples from my workplace in the late 80’s

Women have to wear skirts so we can look at their legs

Give us a cuddle darling ( prior to being grabbed by some vile man) this was just a given, no one even raised eyebrows

Why aren’t you at home cooking your husband’s tea?

I hope you don’t get pregnant because we will sack you

It’s great employing ‘girls’ we don’t have to pay them as much as ‘men’ . They are all dizzy anyway.

I could go on and in

They don't want women to have a lower pension age for women though.

I don’t think it can be addressed by women having a lower pension age though. I think we have to address the inequality in the workplace itself.
While I agree with that, and for myself, I have benefited with the more equal (but still not equal) society, these women have had the worst of all worlds.

TheEmoji I was born in 1963 as well, and I recognise all that you say.

Winter- did you ever get?

‘Why are you working here, you’re sitting in a fortune, go and use that. You can start with me’🤮

I wonder whether that sort of stuff still goes on, but now I'm middle aged, I thankfully miss out on it all!!!

I had an argument with a male friend who was very much in favour of the pension age being raised for women as it was unfair on men to have to work for five years longer. I pointed out it was a kind of 'social contract' that women stayed home with the children and men worked to keep them. He said women chose children over their career so it was women's fault. He thought that because I didn't have children it wasn't fair. I pointed out not only women have children - men have children too. But that being a parent affected him and his wife in different ways. He had children and it hadn't affected his career one jot - no time out birthing his children, raising his children, delivering and collecting them from school. He had a woman to do all that for him. He continued on his career trajectory and paying into a pension without a break. His wife didn't get that benefit because she was at home with the children until they went to school then went part time to fit around school while he worked full time with a long commute so was out of the house for at least 12 hours a day.

He grudgingly saw my point eventually having never actually looked at it that way before.

I'm just about to start a new job at age 57 after having been semi retired and I am terrified. I get so tired these days and I'm not as sharp as I was, much as I hate to admit it. I'm lucky in that I'll probably only have to work for two years then my (slightly older) DH will retire and I can retire with him. I need to work because of lack of stamp which affects my pension, and that we've lost so much money in our investments which are there for our retirement due to the downturn in the stock market due to Covid. The stock market will come back up but not in time for us to recover what has been lost before we have to retire.

My DH is also struggling to maintain his level of focus as he ages, it's not just me! We both hate to admit we are feeling old, we never thought we would.

And this is what no one accounts for. We are still meant to be as lively and keen as the 20 somethings. So whilst the pension age has been raised nothing has happened to support older workers in these jobs.

Winter, l think it still goes on, but not as obviously and more underhand.

Oh yes I used to be dismissed as a useless wee girlie because I was young and now I'm dismissed as a useless old gimmer because I'm old.

Sexist and ageist and given that I'm also disabled I'm dreading working.

TheEmoji Born 1962 so yes, I also recognise what you describe. Questioned about childcare arrangements, shouldn't I be at home with my children, always being told to make the tea/clean the kitchen etc

We could, if we wanted to, be radical as a society. Why not have everyone retire at 60? The majority of us will have made our 35 years contributions, it'll mean we can enjoy a bit of life and there'll be space for youngsters who don't have much to look forward to right now.

The population's shrinking, jobs are scarce, a lot of mainland Europe are lowering their pension age and life expectancy is going down. It's not a case of 'we can't afford it', of course we can. After all, Boris just found another £100billion down the back of his sofa to dole out to his mates!
It's a question of priorities and the UK governments' priorities are not necessarily the same as ordinary peoples'.

If everyone retired at 60, there would be more jobs for the Millennials etc.

Then they would be at much less mercy from gig and low paid jobs. You are correct. The country can afford to but doesn’t want to. So thereby shafting the young even more

Society is just a mess these days😥

Also the equal pay act was 45 years ago. The WASPI women will have spent the vast majority of their working life after that

So you think that made a difference?

I was working in the late 70s for quite large companies and I tell you the equal pay act did mean nothing.

In the late 80s I missed out on a promotion to a YTS boy who was incapable of doing the job because
“ He will one day have a wife and family to look after so needs the extra income”

The WASPI women had inequality all their working lives so trying even things up by making them work for longer seems more like another kick in the teeth

@CayrolBaaaskin well the first change in age may have been 20 years ago and yes I was informed of that. As I said, I accepted it as I realise people are living longer and pensions cannot be paid for years and years.

The second change though came much much later and, although I am sure you won't believe it, I did not receive notification of it and neither did many women. This is one of the arguments put forward by the WASPI women.

I don't think it was well publicised and no, that is not because I didn't want to accept it.

As another poster said, there was no internet then, no social media. I did not read newspapers on a regular basis and so never read about nor did I see or hear anything on tv.

The sudden jump in the change of age is what makes it unfair. As I said, my hairdresser was born ONE year before me and yet received her pension FOUR years before me. Do you honestly think that is fair?

No way could I have worked until just short of 66. I only worked part time from 50 because of ill health and then had to give up at 56. DH was working (still is as he is younger than me) but also can't work full time because of health problems. We were entitled to no benefits whatsoever and struggled massively to pay our rent and bills.

Now I get my pension things are so much easier.

There is so much misinformation on this thread - there is no way that 2 people born a month apart had/have a 5 year difference in their pension age. It was an incremental monthly increase for those born from 6th April 1950 up to 5th April 1953
Please see calculator below:
www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/state-pension/state-pension-age-calculator-asfz43c0xp8q

Calculators like this have been available for well over 10 years.

The women I feel a little bit of sympathy for are those born between April 1953 and March 1955 some of whom had up to an additional 18 months added to their pension age by the 2011 acceleration by George Osborne. Those born between October 1954 and March 1960 had up to another year added.

I was born in February 1960 so had 2 months added to my pension age following the 2011 Act.

I have known for years (since 1995) that the pension age was increasing so I do not know what planet some women were on if they did not know that this was coming. When I was working with my previous employer we used to talk about it a lot and people were humorously calculating the exact day they could retire!!!

We all have a responsibility to keep up to date with changes that affect us and ignorance of facts is no defence.

And I’m having to give up due to ill health. But have to wait 10 years for the pension I’ve paid for.

@ElinoristhenewEnid I was born between April 1953 and March 1955.
I'm still miffed that my neighbour, 11 days older than I am, got her pension 2 months before I did!

Interesting thread. Majority female professions like teaching and nursing all allow retirement with full pension much earlier than the State pension age.

This has the biggest impact on lower paid jobs. Does the tax credit system not assist the lowest paid in these cases?

@ElinoristhenewEnid definitely women born a year apart had a difference of 4 years. My hairdresser was born the year before me and got hers 4 years before me. I checked on the calculator you linked to and it's right.

Good for you for knowing for years. As I keep saying, I knew about the FIRST change but not the second. Sorry I didn't keep up to date on the news. It's not like I expected there to be a second change or, maybe, I thought I would be notified of the fact?

Just because you in your smug world used to talk about it with your employer doesn't mean we all did. If the second change was so universally known why is it that not one person mentioned it to me? I have friends born the same year as me and none of them knew about the second change.

My mum, sister and a couple of friends spoke about the first change but no one about the second because they didn't know about it!

@lynsey91. Yes I agree that those born between April 1953 and March 1955 were particularly affected. I had a friend born February 1953 who got her pension in November 2015 under the original rules whereas another friend born April 1954 had to wait until November 2019 under the accelerated rules instead of her original date of May 2018.

@pheobeasy stated that an aunt missed deadline for 60 by a month and therefore had to wait another 5 years for pension - that could not have been the case due to the incremental monthly increases in age between April 1950 and March 1953.