Dealing with the feelings, a support thread.

[Wandawomble]

A general support thread I guess. My feelings and thoughts and I’d love to hear yours,

So today was horrible for me (background - generally with job stuff and being a token ethnic minority in a programme that’s meant to give equal opportunities but doesn’t, and my family is away so I’m on my own this week, so a bit vulnerable.)

Today’s Twitter horror aimed at JK, various friends cawing in their ignorance, the anger I feel is really difficult. Women have fought so hard for our rights and I see supposedly feminist friends who are so loud and vocal And gleeful in their giving away of our rights.

It’s exhausting.
I have not engaged so far but I’m getting to the point where I’m going to explode and of course that will have awful repercussions for my job etc.
I don’t want to explode at friends who just clearly don’t get it, but I’m getting so fed up of the ignorance.

I learned my lesson during Brexit and the last election, falling out with old school friends in a picture opposite to Pooh and Piglet staying friends.

I go between:

Do these women not care that the word woman is being erased? Do they not notice that their kids seem to be declaring their sexualities before they have even had a first kiss?
Do they not care about what’s happening to Lesbians and autistic girls? (my kid is both)
Do they not notice that it’s the trans activists who are advocating rape and death threats and not the other way round?

And then on the other side

These are friends, relatives, people I love, people I love to be with. People who I, 80 percent agree with, people I care about and people who care about me.

I’m not on Twitter as it’s way too insane.
I’m considering coming off Facebook for a while.
Honestly it gives me a stomach ache.

Today I’m going to focus on the second part, that I do care about these people. I listen to Radio 4 Extra today and there was a segment about the people you disagree with are the ones who can help you grow.
I took a breath and thought about how to approach talking about this to friends I know who disagree with me, in a respectful way so we can clear the slate and move on. I don’t know if it’s possible without them screaming BIGOT at me. But maybe that wouldnt happen. I don’t know, and I don’t have to do anything right now. Today I almost lost it with a friend but came here instead and thank goodness there was sanity.

How is everyone else managing?

Oh god I could have written your post. That's EXACTLY how I feel. Ready to explode. I have some friends and family who I'm able to drop in the odd snippet of information but actual conversations are difficult as they all think I'm exaggerating/obsessed etc.

But far worse than that is my whole close friendship group who are all fully signed up TWAW. They know I am pretty terfy but at the same time we have this almost unwritten rule to not talk about it as we'd definitely fall out. I feel so trapped in what I can say.

I find writing aggy letters to my MP or whichever idiot company is collecting woke brownie points, helps alleviate the anger I feel towards the whole shitshow of the situation. And lurking on here constantly to find sanity.

I think sometimes it’s best to step away from the computer for a while.

I only know one trans lady and she’s a delight. I support her cause because she’s a brilliant human and to be honest I don’t see her as a threat. In fact it seems insane to even type that. Likewise the only abuse I’ve received or whenever I’ve felt unsafe is from men. Not transgender women.

What I will say is those screaming for JK Rowling to die is disgusting. There’s no excuse for it. But again, step away from the computer. It’s all just noise and junk for the mind.

Hope you’re feeling better tomorrow :)

I have a few transwomen and transmale friends as well as a lot of gay and lesbian friends too. The gay and lesbian friends are fuming about it all like me, I wouldn’t want to offend the T friends by asking but certainly one of them is wishing death on Rowling :(

I've exploded on facebook and I really couldn't give a shit now, I feel I'm out and proud.

I kept it nuanced tonthe point of not completely stating in gender critical so as if someone wanted to dox me to my employer they ca pinpoint anything down but I honestly feel quite elated.

I've been ignoring one particular person's posts for so long I just couldn't keep it in anymore, I actually feel quite free. No idea why the latest storm was my jumping off point.

I dont know your friend and dont think they should be using womens single sex facilities. The issue isn't about you and your relationship with your brilliant friend.
Its not really fair to post that on a support thread for women who are concerned that sex based rights are fast disappearing.

Posted too soon. It really is exhausting isn't it, the constant aggression, misrepresentation of the facts, general WTF feeling you're filled with constantly at the ABSOLUTE battshittery of the whole thing. And disbelief that people you previously thought were intelligent/compassionate just don't seem to get it, or want to get. I'm not sure.

I'm so sorry you're having a tough time of it atm. Try and take a break from the madness now and then as it really does mess with your head if you don't! Maybe wine and Strike? I'm rewatching them all and thoroughly enjoying it.

I wouldn’t want to offend the T friends by asking but certainly one of them is wishing death on Rowling.

The unfriend function on FB is very therapeutic. Is this really someone you want as a friend?

"Women have fought so hard for our rights and I see supposedly feminist friends who are so loud and vocal And gleeful in their giving away of our rights."

This, so very much.

I go and dig in my garden or go for a run when it all gets too much.

@Thelnebriati

I dont know your friend and dont think they should be using womens single sex facilities. The issue isn't about you and your relationship with your brilliant friend. Its not really fair to post that on a support thread for women who are concerned that sex based rights are fast disappearing.

... are you literally silencing a woman... the very same thing you’ve been saying is the issue that OP posted? The irony!!

OP, as I said the rabbit hole is horrid and upsetting - no one should have to read what’s being posted. Like I said. Surround yourself with people who love and support you. Take some time off the internet (including here!)

There's only one way to cope. Get out and stay away from anyone too left wing. I hate to say it but in the UK the so called right wing (I'm not talking Nazis! I mean norms like people!) are so much kinder and more accepting. So much less time spent judging and more time spent spoiling labradors.

Move towards the light. Towards the normal. Towards the fun. Where people might make silly comments but in their heart don't care if you're gay or not white or anything really. They only care whether you are nice, or fun. Once they know you.

Whereas in other circles they don't care who you are. They only care how woke you are. I've seen all sides. From Yorkshire country posh to north London super liberal. And I know who I find more accepting and kind. And it's not the latter.

I think when it's at the point where someone is wishing death on a woman based on a distorted click-baity summary of a fictional work she's written, the kind of growth they're offering is the kind that comes from stepping back from your friendship with them. It's a very extreme thing to do. The people sanctimoniously shaking their heads over 'why is JKR so mean?' are ones you might have a chance with in the future, if you're so inclined. I think the death threat stuff, unless they're very young, speaks to a capacity to turn on any woman, yourself included, if she steps out of line, and for people with that mentality, every woman will eventually step out of line and 'deserve' it.

Which sounds bleak but this is where we are.

No Connie, I will not stop posting here.
I did not try to stop you posting on Mumsnet. I asked you to consider the words you had used on this thread.

... are you literally silencing a woman... the very same thing you’ve been saying is the issue that OP posted? The irony!!

Oh FFS don't be a dick.

What you’re doing is the equivalent of posting on a support thread for women who have been abused by their partners about how absolutely fabulous your partner is and how you’ve never suffered abuse in a relationship. Tone deaf is completely understating it.

If you want to be that kind of person, knock yourself out. Maybe that is who you are. Great. Bully for you. But don’t expect any respect for your insensitivity and gloating, and don’t act the ingénue and carry on with your ridiculous DARVO charade when people call you on it.

Go strum your guitar in the void, to quote the wonderful littlbrowndog.

Unfollow friends on Facebook for a while to avoid their annoying posts. Step away from Twitter. If some people are making really vile comments then it might be worth re-evaluating if you want to be friends with such a person. Otherwise it's probably not worth getting into a heated argument and falling out with people right now. There's a time and place for discussions, but not when you're in an upset or frustrated mood.

It's always more productive to have private conversations one-on-one. Having arguments on Facebook are rarely productive because people feel they have to dig their heels in when they know everyone else on their friend list will be reading the exchange and piling on. When arguments are public, there's less incentive to admit you are wrong.. people want to save face or show they are able to stand up for what they believe it, so will become defensive.

When conversations are in private and one-on-one, it's likely to go better as each side can speak without pressure or feeling like everyone's eyes are on you. You might still end up disagreeing, but it's less likely to combust.

Remember that most people spend little to no time thinking critically about any kind of issue. They form their opinions on assumptions and ideas cobbled together from reading headlines or overhearing what other people say. It's only when something affects them in some way or there's some internal curiosity or desire to look at it a bit deeper, do people then start paying attention. Think about how long it took you to start paying attention and when you eventually changed your mind.

People don't change their mind overnight. It's a slow and gradual process. Everyone moves at their own pace and each person has lots of other issues and more immediate problems competing for their attention.

Facts on their own don't tend to change minds. A lot of people are more swayed by arguments that appeal to emotion.

I'd highly recommend you watch or read about atheists who talk to extremely religious people. Not the type of atheist who likes to provoke or argue or insult, but there are specific techniques to use when discussing certain issues with people who are very invested in certain beliefs or rigid ideologies. You have to engage with them without making them feel defensive. You have to listen and figure out what is underlying their beliefs - whether it is thinking that evolution isn't true or that TWAW - you want to get them to explain to you their reasoning, and in the process get them to think through their reasons. Sometimes people realise the absurdity of their beliefs when they have to explain them to someone else.

It's good to take a break though and focus on other things. Read books, cook, go for a run, put on some music in your living room and dance, whatever it is you enjoy doing. Use Mumsnet as a way to vent instead of letting it spill out at work or in other personal relationships.

@NonnyMouse1337 you know I think this is one of the wisest things I've ever read on her. Great post

I think it’s really great to hear everyone’s feelings, thoughts and strategies tonight, many of us need it I think, to help get things in perspective as normally we are talking about a single issue in a thread but not about how we are feeling as a whole and how it’s affecting us.
I’ve taken your advice and Blocked the death on JK person, I think I’ll also block anyone in the acquaintances list who insults her.

A few I can’t block as I work with them including one who is a very vocal woman who hates JK but who in all other things is an amazing person.
I have thought over time the real issues around safeguarding and women’s safety will start to come out with court cases etc and public opinion shifting but it seems like, especially with erasure of the word woman, things are speeding up in the other direction.
Sometimes I wonder if it’s a lost cause, and then I look at my kid and think to myself if JK knew she has stopped just one autistic girl from unnecessary life-changing surgery and trauma than all the horror she is getting flung at her, will have been for something. She has brought true light to this issue and as such I hope many other parents will come to their senses and save their kids. Before this I was like my friends, couldn’t raise the rainbow flag fast enough. Since this has happened my daughter and I have educated ourselves, and just in the nick of time I can tell you as several of her friends are coming out as pan or gran or non binary.

Pan or Tran that was meant to say, not Gran!
Gransexual has just made me snort my tea.

Replace 'JK Rowling' with any oppressed group and there wouldn't be any dilemma, you'd just stop engaging with them.

@Thelnebriati

Replace 'JK Rowling' with any oppressed group and there wouldn't be any dilemma, you'd just stop engaging with them.

Exactly.

I mean, come on...how hard is it to draw a line right where 'abuse a woman for thoughtful expression of her experience and concerns is OK and good!' occurs, if you truly think women are deserving of respect.

Not hard at all, is the answer.

It's FB. Block the lot of 'em.

Good point, it’s just hard when members of that oppressed group are so vocal about oppressing itself.
House Elves anyone?

What?

I don't know what your reply means.

Some people have no problem supporting or being abusive to a woman. Those people I do not choose to have as friends. Easy as. It doesn't matter if those people who support woman-abuse identify as oppressed or not. They could be the fucking elite or at the bottom of the pyramid. Abusing women (or tolerating abuse of women) is not OK. Ever. People who accept it are not being good people.

*supporting abuse of a woman or being abusive to a woman.

My reply Black Wave, was to the message above yours. I think we cross posted.
I was referencing House Elves in Harry Potter books as they don’t want to leave their servitude. Hermione spends a long time making badges for House Elf Liberation but they house elves have no interest.

I hope your week gets better, OP. My frustration spilled out on you but it's not caused by you...

Just ask your friends whether they support the abuse of JKR.

They'll fall into one of three groups.

1. No, I don't. As much as disagree with her, abuse is never acceptable.
2. No, but...
3. Kill a T*RF

Keep any who fall into group 1. These are the people with whom there is a possibility of useful discussion.

Ditch 2 & 3.

Or find a cave. That's my plan. The current state of woman-hate, especially from the young, seems intractable. I fear we are on a rapid backwards slide to a very uncomfortable place for women. About the only consolation, besides the fact that that some other women see it too, is that eventually we'll be dead and will get a break from the unrelenting misogyny.

It’s also not so easy blocking people when they are old friends, close friends, family, or people I am working with. Acquaintances sure. But blocking is not a blanket answer in times where we aren’t able to get out and see people even and am not going to break valuable and good friendships over this. Or if I have to communicate with that person every day as part of my job.