Boys using girls toilets

[tarasharp]

Hi I’d just like people’s opinions on whether they think this is wrong. My granddaughter who’s 15 was upset yesterday because of the new system at school whereby the toilets are mixed. Apparently because of the way they’re all split into groups it’s the only way they can all use a toilet closer to them. My dgd knew of the changes during the holidays and worried about it, she knew the boys would cause problems, which they have.

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out.

My dd phoned the school to complain because there was supposed to be an undertaking that these toilets were monitored during break time and they weren’t. Do you all think this is wrong, and if so, is there any solution? Thanks in advance.

[tarasharp]

Perhaps I should just call myself a “concerned parent” rather than be specific and identify myself.

[tarasharp]

The thing that got me was the attitude of the female teacher to my dd when she phoned. Patronising, condescending and basically couldn’t see any problem. She was describing the cubicles as rooms even though the sinks weren’t enclosed. How can a woman not emphasise with a young girl in heavy periods.

[Winesalot]

How can a woman not emphasise with a young girl in heavy periods.

Because some women cannot understand that other women have periods that are so much more heavier and messier than their personal experience.

[EchoCardioGran]

Glad that you found your way here Tara.
Some horrible responses on that other thread.
Great letter from Mummyoflittledragon.
I suggest that you cc in the Chair of Governors also.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@tarasharp

Perhaps I should just call myself a “concerned parent” rather than be specific and identify myself.

They’ll check who you are. They will just refuse to correspond with you if you don’t identify yourself correctly as you could be a journalist. They’ll want you to state your familial connection as a minimum before you get any kind of non generic response if they even respond due to you not having PR. They’d be stupid to do otherwise and could be putting their jobs on the line

[tarasharp]

I’ll say who I am and hope that even if I’m not the mother they’ll be concerned that it’s been noted that the arrangements aren’t satisfactory, especially regarding the legal requirement that sinks should be within the cubicles, also the matter of sexual discrimination and harassment.

At the very least they should make sure the toilets are supervised. I wonder if they’ll be getting other complaints.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Ok do update the thread if you get a response. I’d be very interested to see what the school say. Idk if certain rules and regs have been suspended in the wake of covid.

[crunchermuncher]

Your poor gd, that sounds awful. This is why women need our own spaces!

I hope you get a decent response.

Just to add to a previous comment about covid though, these ARE unprecedented times and schools are having a very tough time trying to keep pupils and staff safe with limited facilities to juggle. I can see why they've made the decision to have mixed loos (completely different scenario to just deciding that girls don't need their space). But they need to ensure the facilities are properly supervised to stop these kind of incidents. I would also be worried that schools will decide in future that mixed facilities were ok during covid so they may as well keep them.

OP you might get a better response if you acknowledge the efforts the school are making to try and reduce risks from covid - I expect all the staff are run ragged at the moment (absolutely doesn't excuse their failure to protect and support your gd though).

Good luck!

[tarasharp]

Yes I will update if I get a response Mummyoflittledragon and yes crunchermuncher I’m definitely going to acknowledge the difficulties they’re facing because of covid.

[Alexandernevermind]

What a horrible situation. You have some good suggestions here for ways to go forward. Is it worth talking to a few of the other mums or getting in touch with the governors. Covid cannot be used as an excuse to break the law or compromise your GD's safety and dignity.

[DeliciouslyFemale]

tarasharp, I’m fully supportive of your endeavours to protect girls and wish you well, but would it be better if your daughter was willing to send that excellent email, as a concerned parent? I’m just worried that they will use the fact that you’re not the parent, to dismiss you. Though I suppose she could do that if they do ignore you or try to tell you that you have no say in the matter. Best of luck.

[tarasharp]

DeliciouslyFemale I was thinking that, I think it would be better coming from her tbh. The only problem we have to overcome is dgd, she hates the idea of them knowing it all stems from her, in case of repercussions. I’m sure I can talk her round though.

[tarasharp]

Alaxandernevermind Yes it would be good to know what other mothers think, I don’t know any of them but dd will know a few. Trouble is you don’t really see other mums because the kids all tend to go to school without parents. I bet there’s more than me and Dd outraged though.

[Schoolsout2]

I agree your actual daughter needs to deal with it. I would not faff around with a call. I would request to see the head in person.

Weather your period is light or heavy id hate for the boys to be stood outside whilst needing to change if I was a pupil at school.

[DiggerDave]

It sounds like the toilets are mixed so the boys aren't using the girls toilets as stated. They're using the unisex toilets they're supposed to.

I can't believe schools have fallen for this sort of thing though and created what are undoubtedly safeguarding issues just to pander to a tiny minority. It's not great for the boys either I'd imagine as there won't be any urinals and they'll have to wait for the girls who usually take longer in the loo.

[crunchermuncher]

DiggerDave it's because of the class/year group bubble system that schools have had to implement because of covid.

They are trying to keep groups of kids separate to facilitate social distancing, hence restrictions on who can use which toilet.

They don't have funds to hire portaloos, as suggested upthread, some schools are so underfunded that they rely on teachers providing stationery supplies out out their own pocket. They have to work with the facilities they've got. Maybe it would have been better to have female bubbles and male bubbles in order to facilitate toilet use - but what a can of worms that would be...

The toilets need to be better supervised, these incidents can't be allowed to happen that much is evident. But I think we risk undermining arguments for single sex spaces if we don't acknowledge what is driving these decisions in this instance . Solutions have to work in the real world. Covid shouldn't be an excuse for not protecting girls, but it is the reason that this policy change has been made at this school. There simply isn't a pot of spare money for extra toilets or for schools to somehow create extra rooms.

OP I hope you or your daughter have success with the school taking this seriously, this kind of harassment is unacceptable especially for young girls just getting used to managing menstruation.

[BovaryX]

OP,
It is staggering that anyone thinks the situation that you have described is remotely acceptable. It is appalling decisions made by adults who exhibit a total disregard for the well being of the teenage girls in their care. I agree with escalating this to the governor. Is there a local paper you can contact? You don't have to identify yourself, but one of the reasons this is happening is because a) people don't know it's happening b) people feel powerless to stop it. I honestly don't think this has any public support. Therefore local public exposure seems like a good move. It's indefensible.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@tarasharp

DeliciouslyFemale I was thinking that, I think it would be better coming from her tbh. The only problem we have to overcome is dgd, she hates the idea of them knowing it all stems from her, in case of repercussions. I’m sure I can talk her round though.

There should not be any repercussions for your dgd. The school have to keep any correspondence about her completely private. Any sharing of information inappropriately would be a breach of data protection and anyone doing so would be in a lot of trouble. I am not in any way a specialist but my understanding from being on mumsnet for a fair while is that name shouldn’t even be mentioned when discussing the toilet issue in a wider circle.

Is this why her mum doesn’t want to write to the school?

[tarasharp]

My dd is happy with the letter and is going to use a lot of it and add bits of her own. I’m not sure who she spoke to when she phoned, it might have been head of year but she had a terrible attitude, making out my dgd and dd were making a big fuss over nothing. It amazes me that any woman could think it’s acceptable.

[DeliciouslyFemale]

I’m glad your daughter is using the letter and I’m sure she’s very grateful for you doing the research for her. So will your granddaughter, eventually. Tell your granddaughter that by staying strong and supporting her mum in contacting the school, she is also helping the other girls who are younger or may be really upset/frightened but have no one to speak up for them.

[midclegs]

Great to see the wonderful women if this board unite again.

@tarasharp not sure if you've seen this but there are some great resources on this page too.

womansplaceuk.org/mixed-sex-toilets-ins-chools/

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Good luck tara

Whatever you do do not let them make any of you doubt yourselves

They are breaking the law.
No one wants this no matter who told them what.

Its a problem entirely of their own making and none of the kids are under any obligation to make them feel good about whatever woke bollocks they are trying to use covid as an excuse to implement.

[tarasharp]

Im truly grateful for all this support and encouragement, thanks so much everyone.

[DeliciouslyFemale]

You’re very welcome. Good luck and please let us know how it goes. Don’t give up at the first hurdle.

[EchoCardioGran]

Good wishes tarasharp.