New Zealand Government Dept Pronoun Document

[MillyMollyFarmer]

These islands have been so captured, all the way to the top.
For some time those working in government departments have been encouraged to sign emails with pronouns, this document explains the terms and reasons, as well as stating how to complain if anyone comments on your pronoun use.

A member of my family is in government and doesn’t use them nor wants to, but if everyone else is and the explanation or guide states things like ‘c*s’ as factual, it would be hard not to go along with this, right? If this comes right from the top how could you resist it?

It also states why it’s beneficial:

When cisgender people include pronouns, it normalises it for everyone and protects trans and gender diverse people when they include their pronouns.
Having pronouns in an email signature signals you as an LGBTQIA+ ally.

www.publicservice.govt.nz/our-work/diversity-and-inclusion/pronoun-use-in-email-signatures

MNHQ I used the banned c word as otherwise the document won’t make sense, please edit rather than delete.

In order to be an ally to those grappling with their gender identity, and who don't yet feel confident enough to declare pronouns, I am showing solidarity by not declaring any pronouns. This helps to create a safe space where people don't feel pressured to declare a gender identity. I won't take offence to whichever pronouns you feel you wish to use in referring to me"

This is brilliant, thank you. I will absolutely pass this on!

Thank god I am self employed

I know right? My DH has been having diversity and blm style meetings at work, not compulsory yet... their industry and his team specifically has lots of black and Asian so they ended up having a discussion, instigated by DH, about the real lack of inclusion and diversity in their industry: women.

It's bad enough having to do the introductions, it's all time wasting without this having to declare personal information about yourself.

Wonder if there is a privacy angle to this, some people even if part of the so-called community might not want all and sundry knowing, and anyone that they do know would know. It's one of those things forcing people to disclose stuff they typically wouldn't in the workplace.

They also should address they are making stuff up, in the definitions especially with newly created words like "taahine" which the best sources I can find is a Tongan word for maiden they've nicked. Good luck trying to claim "whakatāne" and letting you speak on the Marae, you'd be lucky if they let you speak from the porch. Same with intersex, instead of it being a person with a medical condition that affects the reproductive system, it about "biological attributes", those things you can only understand if you know what a male or female is.

They also should address they are making stuff up, in the definitions especially with newly created words like "taahine" which the best sources I can find is a Tongan word for maiden they've nicked. Good luck trying to claim "whakatāne" and letting you speak on the Marae, you'd be lucky if they let you speak from the porch. Same with intersex, instead of it being a person with a medical condition that affects the reproductive system, it about "biological attributes", those things you can only understand if you know what a male or female is.

All of this! Fuck yes. This appropriating of words is enraging.

Consider starting a meeting with each attendee sharing their name and pronouns.

This is extremely problematic. If 1 person doesn’t do it, everyone in the office will make assumptions about your politics or beliefs around it.

Isn’t it unbelievable that such a tiny percentage of the population have the power to force this on the rest of us?

I hate this, and will refuse to join in if work ever encourages it (my previous place did, even got pips bunce etc in).

I saw an email from a new client the other day, signed off (fake name) “Rob Smith he/him”. If your name is clearly one used by a particular sex, what on earth does it add? I can bloody tell you’re a he/him!

You never see “Mark Jones she/her” because most (all?) transgender people choose a new name.

As well as the compelled speech aspect, the fact you will rarely use third person pronouns in front of someone (who’s she? The cat’s mother?), there’s the often overlooked fact that it is entirely unnecessary for the vast majority of people whose pronouns we can tell from their name. And if we can’t, we wait until we either meet/speak to them to confirm!

what on earth does it add?

Woke points

How about: I have no preferred pronouns, just say what you see. I’m sure someone on FWR said that

This is extremely problematic. If 1 person doesn’t do it, everyone in the office will make assumptions about your politics or beliefs around it.

You see, this is the great thing about being an old gimmer (and not the only breadwinner tbf).

I don’t care whether people make assumptions about me. I don’t care whether they think I’m problematic. As I said upthread, I declined to give my pronouns and gave a reason. There was some nervous shuffling of papers and “so, shall we move to the agenda?” but what are they going to do? Forcing someone to reveal something personal to strangers is not a good look.

No it’s not. As you say though, not everyone is in a position to risk their job.