Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Misogyny - hate crime in Nottingham

16 replies

nevertrustaherdofcows · 10/09/2020 10:36

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/made-misogyny-hate-crime-nottinghamshire-changed-womens-lives/

OP posts:
FindTheTruth · 10/09/2020 10:49

It's behind a paywall.... what's the gist of it?

NonnyMouse1337 · 10/09/2020 11:09

You might find these two links useful background reading.

www.nottinghamwomenscentre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Misogyny-Hate-Crime-Evaluation-Report-June-2018.pdf

nottinghamwomenscentre.com/press-release-9-07-2018-overwhelming-public-support-for-misogyny-hate-crime-policy

As I understand it, in 2016, Nottinghamshire Police introduced a Misogyny Hate Crime policy. An evaluation on the impact of the policy was conducted two years later in 2018 , and it highlighted some interesting points.

● The Police were able to send a clear public message that behaviour which denigrates, marginalises and disrespects women is never acceptable and would be challenged. It also helped reassure women that these types of behaviours would be treated seriously by the Police if reported.

● Women felt more confident in challenging men who targeted them, as they knew they had the backing of police policy.

● Women from BME groups often experienced misogyny hate crime and racial hate crime simultaneously and felt doubly vulnerable to attack.

The downside, as mentioned in the report, is that the use of the term ‘misogyny’ was poorly understood amongst the general public and therefore an alternative name might be a better approach.

Happy to be corrected, but that was the gist when I skimmed read the report a few months ago. Smile

FindTheTruth · 10/09/2020 11:28

@NonnyMouse1337 thanks, the research, particularly the 2 pages of recommendations, is interesting.

including

Recommendations for campaigns
• The key focus of any educational campaign should be on men who engage in these behaviours being the ones who need to change. Other countries have used other men as role models to deliver the message that these behaviours are unacceptable and criminal
• There is a need for men to become acutely aware of how women feel when they experience street harassment at all ends of the ‘harassment continuum’, including how it affects them physically and emotionally, and how it restricts their behaviour.

nevertrustaherdofcows · 10/09/2020 11:42

Thank you Nonny - didn't realise there was a paywall.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 10/09/2020 14:00

Interesting. The lesbian couple who were attacked on a bus last year have joined a campaign to introduce misogyny as a hate crime.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/10/london-bus-attack-couple-join-campaign-to-make-misogyny-a-hate

Fwiw, I don't support misogyny being a hate crime any more than any other crime being a hate crime. Maybe because I'm pedantic, but the idea of legislating an emotion freaks me right out.

NonnyMouse1337 · 10/09/2020 14:39

Yes, I'm still on the fence about the overall concept of hate crime legislation. Does it actually help tackle prejudice in the long-term, are there better ways to prosecute such acts, etc. We need to be able to monitor if certain groups face disproportionate hostility without having an ever expanding list of characteristics that are elevated above others.

TweeBree · 10/09/2020 14:42

SUE FISH
FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF CONSTABLE OF NOTTINGHAMSHIRE POLICE

10 September 2020 • 7:00am

Back in 2014, I was asked to categorise misogyny as a hate crime. Citizens UK in Nottingham approached me, as they had undertaken an inquiry and seen a significant trend: women were being victimised simply because of their gender.

They had also found that people were being targeted for a number of different reasons; for instance, being both a Muslim and a woman – and that the police had no way of capturing and recording the underlying motivations for these crimes.

So in 2016, I put my head above the parapet to make misogyny a hate crime in my area. Some people dismissed and denigrated the idea then - and still do now - but four years later, so much is changing. Five forces across the country - North Yorkshire, Avon and Somerset, Northamptonshire, Surrey and Gloucestershire - have now joined us in this endeavour.

But we need to go further. That’s why I am welcoming a new Citizens UK report published this week. They have surveyed more than a thousand people on their experiences of hate crime, and some of the findings are really eye opening. For instance, hate motivated by gender is already a factor in 33.5 per cent of all existing hate crime. 22.4 per cent of incidents are solely motivated by gender - and yet gender is not currently protected under hate crime law.

Among its recommendations, the report advises that hate crimes directed at women because of their gender across all police forces should be recorded, as well as training and greater accountability for institutions, such as transport providers, responsible for safety in public spaces.

Making misogyny a hate crime was one of the simplest tasks I’ve ever undertaken when working in the police. A mere case of delivering training on why we were now capturing gender as a determining factor of hate crime, and making sure the message was disseminated to the public. And the results that we saw were incredible.

Feedback was that women in Nottinghamshire felt much safer, more comfortable, and proud of their area. Some of the responses we had in an evaluation conducted by Nottingham Trent University and Nottingham University told us that women, for the first time, had described themselves as “walking taller” and with their “heads held high.”

We also saw women feeling much more confident to come to the Police to report what had happened to them. We began to see a transformation in their relationship with the force. It is true to say that policing is still predominantly delivered by white, heterosexual men without disabilities, and that policing has, over the years, fallen short in relation to women – particularly around rape and domestic abuse investigations. So, for women to see the police grappling with some of the fundamental issues that women face, day in and day out, and responding positively to it sent a really powerful message to women in Nottinghamshire.

Women grossly under-report what happens to them. So it was really important for us to try and build the confidence that the police will take them seriously. Thanks to the introduction of misogyny as a hate crime, women know they do not have to put up with the abuse that they get every single day.

As a result of our bold action, the Law Commission is now looking at explicitly making misogyny a hate crime as part of its review. Scotland has already reviewed its hate crime legislation and said that the case is made for gender to be classified as a hate crime; and Northern Ireland is reviewing its hate crime legislation, too. A group of MPs is also tabling an amendment to the Domestic Abuse Bill to help make this a reality.

It feels that in Nottinghamshire we started rolling a small stone down a hill, and it’s now gathering moss. This has the potential to make a huge difference to the lives of all women, and also men. It’s quick, and easy to introduce, and can make an enormous difference. That’s why I need the UK Government to make misogyny a hate crime nationally - because policing shouldn’t just be by postcode.

Fallingirl · 10/09/2020 14:53

Hmmm, they need to be clear about the differences between sex, gender, and gender identity. Otherwise this just becomes another way for people who are not of the female sex who claim a female gender identity, to report perceived “hatred”.

Another thing to consider, is what they are unleashing the moment this is rolled out to include Twitter.

Imnobody4 · 10/09/2020 15:13

I'm still very torn about this. If we keep the concept of hate incidents then yes misogyny should be included. However that will lead to demands for misandry as well.
They also found that many of the reports were real crimes, assault, harassment etc which leads onto the question of why they are not being properly prosecuted in the first place. (CPS I'm looking at you)

NonnyMouse1337 · 10/09/2020 15:14

What exactly falls under misogyny and misogyny hate crime?

What about other laws on sexual harassment etc?

Scotland has already reviewed its hate crime legislation and said that the case is made for gender to be classified as a hate crime

Ummmm.. it hasn't added SEX to the list of characteristics that are covered by hate crime legislation. There is a drive to set up misogyny as a standalone offence, but I don't know if that's any better or worse than being part of the standard hate crime legislation.

Gender and sex are not the same thing. Only sex is a protected characteristic in the UK Equality Act.

The trans lobby are very keen to push transwomen into any legislation for women, and desperate to get 'transmisogyny' into law.

ArabellaScott · 10/09/2020 22:17

The interview just now with MBM and Forwomen Scotland raised a really good point - of the law being used as a symbolic gesture. Which doesn't really work. There are other ways to tackle societal issues than legislating. I tend to think anything like this is more likely to just push things underground. Might be interesting to see how it works in other countries.

Babdoc · 10/09/2020 22:56

I’m v ambivalent about the whole concept of “hate crime”.
If a thug punches a random Muslim in the face because he hates Muslims, and the next day punches a random white Christian in the face because they are wearing a rival team’s football strip, both crimes are common assault and should carry the same penalty.
The thought processes or emotional state of the thug are impossible to prove in court and surely irrelevant to the outcome? Both victims suffered the same degree of injury.

I have a sneaking regard for the incorrigible Gene Hunt in Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes, who exclaimed in exasperation “Hate crime? Hate crime? What do you mean - as opposed to all those ‘love you to bits’ crimes?!”

I think people should be free to hate whoever or whatever they want - (and it is impossible to police people’s thoughts anyway) - we simply arrest them if they break existing laws by abusive words or deeds.

ArabellaScott · 10/09/2020 23:12

Yes, agree entirely, Babdoc. I was a bit Hmm watching the debate in the Scottish parliament where everyone, even those calling for the Bill to be scrapped, queued up to say how much they supported 'eradicating hate'.

If they mean prejudice or bigotry, why not say so? Why 'hate'? Because the bill's wording is so nebulous and vague it is presumably 1. meaningless and impossible to measure the success of failure of and 2. chilling.

Don't see how anyone can legislate feelings or thoughts. If the govt wants to tackle prejudice, then they probably need to do some actual work confronting some of the social problems we face. By refusing to actually confront issues - such as, say, overcrowding, people trafficking, poor housing - they are failing to tackle the issues at the root, and I don't see that politicians trying to say 'you're not allowed to 'hate'' people is going to provide any solutions.

But I get the impression the govt think shiny, pretty demonstrative laws will suffice instead of having to put in any of the boring grind of actually bettering the society we live in with practical actions.

FindTheTruth · 11/09/2020 09:21

I think that what Nottingham police and the researchers have done is start to quantify, start to understand and start to provide evidence and insight to enable these discussions ...

this was interesting hate motivated by gender is already a factor in 33.5 per cent of all existing hate crime. 22.4 per cent of incidents are solely motivated by gender - and yet gender is not currently protected under hate crime law.

Kit19 · 11/09/2020 09:33

but do Nottingham police mean gender or sex?? they need to be clear on that! otherwise as people said this is just another opportunity for TRA to start reporting people for the hate crimes of for example a wife refusing to call her newly mtf husband by their new female name or misgendering even when someone presents as male in apperance but insists that are a TW or NB

FindTheTruth · 11/09/2020 10:07

but do Nottingham police mean gender or sex??

After reading the research links Nonny posted, my perception is that they mean sex

Agree with posters, that the word sex needs to be included to prevent confusion and harm

New posts on this thread. Refresh page