Douglas Murray scathing about trans ideology

[BovaryX]

Douglas Murray has a blistering attack on the trans ideology promoted in schools. He highlights the reliance on gender stereotypes and the deliberate exclusion of parents. Douglas Murray has previously expressed anger about the way children are targeted and the damaging impact of this upon vulnerable young people. This article exposes these issues to a wider audience and contains many themes familiar to the denizens of this board. He writes with a palpable outrage about the incoherence of this ideology.

For parts of the curriculum have been colonised by activists who seek to fill children's heads with ideas that are not just disagreeable, but provably wrong and, for the young people in question, deeply disorientating. And nowhere is that clearer than when it comes to a trans agenda that has gained so much official credence it is even supported by the Government. Ministers have endorsed and funded groups making the most confusing claims about trans issues and have promoted ideas that are wildly untrue. This propaganda is now being pumped into our schools, starting with the claim that 'biological sex' (whether you were born a boy or a girl) can be replaced with 'gender', a thing that the activists say you can choose. And they claim that there are many dozens of these genders, which is stupid as well as sinister. One of the loudest voices in the field is the gay rights group Stonewall

Venn diagram of 'insane' and 'majority' may be required.

Venn diagram of 'insane' and 'majority' may be required

Ha! There is an interesting article in the Telegraph about the current identity politics quagmire.

Nor can it be ignored that the vast majority of the UK’s XR/BLM demonstrators are white, Southern, and middle class; identitarians inventing victimhood to furnish their lives with meaning. Perhaps demonstrators should be forced to wear a t-shirt bearing a photo of the house in which they grew up. Sometimes it seems the Left – or what used to be known as the Left – doesn’t actually want to win the Culture War. How else to explain the constant attacks on each other, rather than working together for the common good? Why seek enemies rather than friends? Is “victory” trolling J.K. Rowling and getting Graham Linehan banned from Twitter?

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/08/snarling-intolerance-fellow-lefties-has-become-disturbing/

Loved the Madness of Crowds but reading the section on feminism was a bit awkward as I felt like he used silly examples of the female experience.

This thread is a bit old, but I'm reactivating it because I'm reading 'The Madness of Crowds'.

Only two chapters in, but I'm sure I'm not on the same page as Murray. Yes, I agree that genderism and intersectionalism are ideologies for our times, when people are looking for meaning in the absence of religion. It's also true that Judith Butler writes gibberish. But, he doesn't seem to know how intersectionalism began - that the original idea was to include black women's perspectives. Also, the chapter on feminism is excruciating. Apparently women's favourite reading material is rape fantasies, and we invest in weird products like one that accentuates 'camel toes' in order to attract men. There was one sentence where he mentioned 'we can find out how women think by...' which implied he doesn't think women are among his readers. Too busy reading rape fantasies and trying to entrap men, probably.

we invest in weird products like one that accentuates 'camel toes' in order to attract men.

Yes and we buy fake nipples to make our nipples look erect apparently? Some of that was so weird, almost like DM has never met an actual woman. I find his articles often thought-provoking but I wasn’t that taken with the Madness of Crowds.

Yep, and he thinks women wear make up to deceive men, and banning sexual approaches at work is bad because some people meet their partners at work... all pretty right wing stuff.

@ThinEndoftheWedge

I have a lot of time for Douglas Murray. He doesn’t seem to see much worth for feminism, but, perfection is the enemy of progress (or something like that!). He is totally unshakeable.

I agree. I would argue with him on some of his views (not as eloquently as he of course) but he fully gets and is vocal about the threat of trans issues on women’s rights. His anger over the medicalisation of ‘trans’ children is palpable.

Thumbs up from me as well. What he says should be said MORE.

Yes, the bit about women in Madness of the Crowds was dire. I agree with PP who said it's like he hasn't considered that women may be reading his book too, but I find a lot of male writers do that. They talk about women as though they are separate from the readership. It's entirely unconscious, but very telling.

However, I do agree with Murray on other subjects. He is worth listening to - and disagreeing with where appropriate. I think he is open to disagreement.

Yep, agree with the above. I listened to The Madness of Crowds as an audiobook, Douglas narrates it and I really do enjoy his waspish delivery. But the chapter on feminism was noticeably weaker than the rest. Straw women arguments throughout, and conclusions being jumped to with acrobatic leaps. I did wonder if someone more well versed in BAME political thought than me might also think the same of the race chapter.

I like him as a thinker and speaker though, still. I disagree with a lot, but he always makes me think.

Yep, and he thinks women wear make up to deceive men, and banning sexual approaches at work is bad because some people meet their partners at work... all pretty right wing stuff

Not sure how your examples here are indicative of right wing ideology?

Unless 'right wing' simply means someone who says something you find disagreeable.

He said Posie Parker was a northern housewife. Made me seriously question his research abilities.

I agree 'The Madness of Crowds' wasn't the best. He'd not really given it much thought and it seemed, in the main, to rely purely on riding the wave of recent critiques of intersectionalism.

Douglas is often very good at "hot takes", I.e. seeing and saying something that others can't/won't. However his research skills aren't great. He seems to decide early on what he wants to find, and then sticks with that no matter what.

I read TMOC, and it seems that Murray has a lot of misconceptions about women, especially women who aren't "womaning" right. For example, he is weirdly obsessed with Nicky Minaj.

I agree with the above, but it is also inescapable that quite a few women buy into the fantasies in books like the 50 Shades of Grey trilogy. After all, SOMEONE is buying them.
And some women must be buying the camel toe things, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them.

I also found the stuff about women and make up really odd.

I watched a talk where he made an observation about women and the power of their looks....with his now very impressive pecs and guns...irony. I've seen male interviewers fall for him who I think aren't even gay.

The everyday appearance of a person is an odd thing to use to criticise women, I thought Murray would know better. I was disappointed with that book as well, but only for that reason.

From an article about the camel toe phenomenon.

"The bonkers trend originated in Asia a decade ago, where women are thought to be using the knickers to accentuate their lady parts."

"This is despite the fact that most women would curl up into a ball if anyone caught them with a camel toe."

"The answer may be because it isn't women buying, but trans ladies trying to hide a tell-tale bulge."

Incidentally having camel toe when I was a teen was considered on par with having the back of your skirt covered in menstrual blood or your nipples showing through your white school shirt.
Tres embarrassment.

And some women must be buying the camel toe things, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them.

It's not inconceivable that a man googling trans issues might be marketed them.

It's odd that women are the buying them but none of us know their name - they can't be 'camel toe things'. Its likely to be very niche or novelty thing.

Does he say how many are actually sold, because it would be ridiculous to use them to make a point about women's sexuality if they don't sell in large numbers.

This is when i find out I'm the only one without a couple.

This is when i find out I'm the only one without a couple.

🤣🤣🤣

You're not, btw!

OK I get your point about the camel toe things. But how about the phenomenal success of 50 Shades of Grey?

I read fifty shades. I didn't care for it by I often get drawn into reading bestsellers incase I miss something good. It would definitely appeal to some women because:

It has a heroine who thinks she is plain but everyone falls in love with her (research shows we like our heroines a bit unremarkable so we can relate) Anastasia is a basic bitch if you like. (I hate the term myself but it serves its purpose well here).

It has women orientated sex scenes. I mean at one point he removes her tampon to take her. Definitely not a bloke's idea for a sex scene.

The kinky sex is not hardcore at all. It's vanilla BDSM. There's a whole big bit about her finally doing anal, and then it's really slow and 'for her comfort.' About a million miles away from most porn ideas of the same act.

There's a lot of rich lifestyle stuff. Designer clothes, helicopters, travel. Escapism.

It's simply written so it's not a taxing read. So it's accessible to most reading abilities and requires less concentration than, say, a fantasy bestseller.

It's very softcore romance. Despite what it's meant to cover it's less shocking than the old Virginia Andrews books.

It's internalised misogyny. Some people like that.

The weirdest books become bestsellers sometimes. I have never really understood it.

I've not read Fifty Shades but as far as I know it isn't a rape fantasy, it's a sado-masochist fantasy?

So some women like reading masochistic fantasies. But how many women pay 'sex workers' to act them out with them, versus how many men? I'd bet that 100% of paying masochists are male, but does that mean men as a class get off on fantasies about being sexually assaulted and degraded?

As for Douglas Murray, he seems to think that sexism (and racism) aren't genuine problems in society, and the patriarchy is a myth. That combined with 'women deceiving men is the problem, not women being harassed' marks him out as an MRA. If anyone has doubts about his political stance, they only have to check his Wikipedia page.

Murray has been described as a conservative, a neoconservative and a critic of Islam. His views and ideology have been linked to far-right political ideologies by a number of academic and journalistic sources. He has also been accused of promoting far-right conspiracy theories,and of being Islamophobic.

He's associate editor of The Spectator, which is right-leaning, and one of his books is titled Neoconservatism: Why We Need It.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Murray_(author)