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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Apparently gender reassignment cures autism

69 replies

Siablue · 02/09/2020 16:14

According to GIDS children ‘had no residual autistic traits’ after transitioning. This is a document from the NHS. I honestly have no words.

Nicky Clarke is writing to Matt Hancock so hopefully will get some response. But what a load of offensive bollocks. Even if they retract this there is no way that these people should be allowed to work with children.

Throughout my whole life people have been pushing a range of fake cures for autism and all of them have gone out of fashion but not before they did a massive amount of damage.

mobile.twitter.com/MrsNickyClark/status/1300736691502829568

OP posts:
MichelleofzeResistance · 02/09/2020 16:20

So what is that actually physically changes the brain from neurodiverse to neurotypical? And lengthens the connections in the cerebellum, and switches processing of faces/people to a different area of the brain?

Is it the hormones? Body surgery? Or is presenting in stereotypical ways what makes the brain adapt and rebuild itself?

Where are the before and after scans please?

Sexnotgender · 02/09/2020 16:22

That’s probably one of the most offensive takes I’ve seen in this whole pile of shit.

yourhairiswinterfire · 02/09/2020 16:27

Fuck sake, is there any depth they won't sink to?

It's like these people are constantly trying to outdo the offensiveness of their previous claims.

Thelnebriati · 02/09/2020 16:28

If the document making this claim is online someone needs to archive it asap.

Thingybob · 02/09/2020 16:29

Surely that quote isn't from GIDS but a response to the draft of an updated service agreement from GIRES?

BlackeyedSusan · 02/09/2020 16:33

Thanks Michelle...that response is so much better than the one I have in mind, which is a lot swearier.

merrymouse · 02/09/2020 16:39

That is ridiculous.

You might as well say that gender reassignment cures the common cold or rickets.

This is particularly offensive given that we know that so many autistic girls become adept at 'passing' as NT, while still struggling to cope in private.

scotsheather · 02/09/2020 16:45

The paper in question is dated April 19 2016 when TRAs were feeling invincible. We hope more have seen the light since then to now.

Siablue · 02/09/2020 16:56

@Thingybob

Surely that quote isn't from GIDS but a response to the draft of an updated service agreement from GIRES?
You are right. It is GRIES response to a GIDS document. Sorry. I got confused in my rage.
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Datun · 02/09/2020 17:00

I can remember GIRES saying that quite a few years ago. Given the outcry, I'm shocked if it's still current advice?

Cabinfever10 · 02/09/2020 17:04

As someone with ASD and the parent of an ASD child this sort of dangerous bs is rage inducing Angry

Thingybob · 02/09/2020 17:22

Thank you for highlighting this response Siablue. My immediate concern is who are the stakeholders that have been invited to respond to the draft contract? A couple of weeks back I saw a tweet from someone associated with Mermaids that suggested they are one of the stakeholders. So are Transgender Trend included in the stakeholders or any other organisations that do not support immediate affirmation and medical intervention for young children?

LonginesPrime · 02/09/2020 17:45

I can remember GIRES saying that quite a few years ago. Given the outcry, I'm shocked if it's still current advice?

As Scotsheather says, the document that's been tweeted is from 2016. It's also just comments on a service specification as opposed to official NHS advice (which goes some way to explaining why it's so poorly written and refers to "patients with ASD" as "ASD", although I'm not sure that explains why the comments are so incoherent and unscientific).

Thingybob · 02/09/2020 18:05

Thank you LonginesPrime, I'd missed the date so assumed it was for the new contract.

Soontobe60 · 02/09/2020 18:14

I’d hazard a guess that the magic ‘cure’ for autism that the use of puberty blockers is claimed to bring about is more likely to be that the parents and/or child believed the child to be autistic, they’ve transitioned and now they’re ‘cured’. Someone with GD clearly has a mental health issue, hence the dysphoria.

Suffrajester · 02/09/2020 22:17

It's not the first incredibly invasive treatment being touted as an "autism cure". There were parents giving their kids enemas of industrial bleach ("miracle mineral solution") and doctors like Andrew Wakefield (now struck off) performing unnecessary colonoscopies. Some kids were left with perforated bowels. Autism organisations spoke out against it.
But now there's autistic kids being sterilised and having their bone and brain development stunted and there's not a peep from any of them. Tony Attwood's been good about it but he's one of very few.

Suffrajester · 02/09/2020 22:58

The Charity Commission asks that you try to contact the charity directly before you raise a complaint, and include any response you get (if any), so I've written to them now in their Contact form. www.gires.org.uk/contact-us/

Sent them this:
"I am gender nonconforming and autistic, and was deeply concerned to read your response to the NHS Standard Contract. (drive.google.com/file/d/0B7n9HajupVrLSzdzVEhvaEVhZmRBNzVXMkMxdlZlZlV4SGFv/view?usp=sharing)
In particular, section 1.5 Autistic spectrum:
"It seems unlikely that the Finnish would have twice as many ASD as the UK in the gender variant population, but that is not a reason for believing the UK figure is an underestimate. Anecdotally, young people who have been successfully treated, are often described as having no residual ASD. The symptoms have disappeared once the dysphoria has been treated. That is obviously not always the case, but it is something that long-term follow-up should address."
Anecdotes have no place in rigorous medical science. Autism has already been proven to be a congenital, lifelong condition, and we autistics and autism researchers have worked for decades to debunk misinformation around any number of "autism cures".
There is a very long and ugly history of invasive treatments being misapplied to autistics as an attempt to "cure" us, or to sterilise us to ensure our genetic condition is not passed on. A pathway of GnRH agonists (puberty blockers) followed by cross-sex hormones now does both: claims to "successfully treat" autism and also damages future fertility.
Section 1.2 Persistence/Desistence of your own document states: "It is not always possible to know whether gender non-conforming behaviours in a child are actually a reflection of gender dysphoria, or whether they are related to some other possible outcome, such as being gay, lesbian or bisexual." To that, I would add "such as being autistic". Autistics do not easily absorb gendered social norms, and we can be very sensitive to uncomfortable clothing and hairstyles: an autistic girl ripping off a scratchy lacy dress, or an autistic boy distressed at having the barber in his personal space, may just be expressing a preference for comfort and not any gendered implications. We don't fit in with our peer group in childhood and sometimes get on better with opposite sex playmates. Our poor motor skills are easily interpreted as graceless and masculine in girls and non-sporty and feminine in boys.
This all goes doubly for non-verbal autistic children whose efforts at communication may be easily misinterpreted by their parents or guardians, and for autistic children with neurotypical (non-autistic) parents who may not understand autism well and look for any promise of a "treatment" for the autism rather than supporting their child to learn ways to manage and get the most out of it.
I am encouraged by the statement "Since there appears to be a raised incidence of ASD in this field, clinicians with this specialism should be part of the team." I agree entirely. However, the following sentence "ASD should not be an excuse for delaying treatment for gender dysphoria" implies that it is indeed an "excuse" rather than a desire to "first do no harm" and ensure dysphoria is the correct diagnosis and not simply an expression of autistic traits or other possible outcomes such as those listed in Section 1.2.
As it stands, the recommendations are open to abuse by unethical medical staff who promote an interventionist and eugenicist approach on the autistic community. Please revise these, in order to have the best outcome for both the trans community and the autistic community.
I look forward to your response."

I'll see what they say. I'm not holding out much hope, given that a lot of their document talks about gender nonconformity as if it's pathological in itself, and it even mentions it might just mean the kid's a future lesbian, gay man or bisexual, but doesn't see it as a problem to transition them anyway. So if they don't care about the rest of the LGBT they're not likely to care about autistics. Still, I'll be interested to see if I get a response.

MillyMollyFarmer · 02/09/2020 23:27

This is gross and offensive. I had thought that an behavioural modification therapy of any kind for autism was banned here? Maybe I’m confused but surely this kind of suggestion or position of a cure for autism would be in conflict with such a policy or law? I am sure I watched a programme which referenced it.

Siablue · 03/09/2020 06:51

The document is still up on the GRIES website. If there was an outcry about this at the time it came out you would have thought they would have got rid of it by now.

Suffrajester I think your letter is really good. There is also a link between gay conversion therapy and fake cures for autism. Have you read Neurotribes?

I don’t hold out a lot of hope for the National Autistic Society as they are are crap with women and girls. I rang them for advice when I was pregnant and they had nothing at all.

The reason that Finland had a higher number of kids who were diagnosed with autism than the U.K. is because Finland has the best education system in the world and properly supports disabled kids.

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KatySun · 03/09/2020 06:57

That is an excellent letter Suffrajester

Smallblanket · 03/09/2020 07:10

Excellent letter Suffrajester. It is so disappointing that it isn't the NAS coming down on GIRES like a ton of bricks. Why aren't they?

SunsetBeetch · 03/09/2020 07:20

@Sexnotgender

That’s probably one of the most offensive takes I’ve seen in this whole pile of shit.
Same here.
Skyliner001 · 03/09/2020 07:27

I can't find the word 'cure' where is it?

mumwon · 03/09/2020 08:03

this is obviously working on the premise that autism is caused by male brain (grinds teeth) which ignores that testing was geared towards boys & as in other disorders such as schizophrenia & bipolar the presentation of the disorder - IN GENERAL - is different as it tends to be in ADHD (ie as in inattentive form without hyperactivity - a friend referred to it as dolly day dreamer ADD)
give me strength!

merrymouse · 03/09/2020 08:19

Skyliner

“Are often described as having no residual ASD”

The phrasing is odd (who talks about ‘ residual ASD’?), but I think it’s fair to understand this as ‘cure’.