Exasperated and worried.

[FloralTeacup]

I've followed a few threads on here around gender, the trans agenda, JK Rowling, etc. It's been the only place to keep me sane!

I was truly (albeit, naively), shocked at the negative, and often violent responses to JK Rowling speaking out in June. I honestly didn't realise that so many people believe that being gender critical is transphobic or hateful. It wasn't until I spoke to a good friend about it, mentioning that I disagreed with all the vitriol towards Rowling that I realised that people like me, and those of you on here, are actually in the minority.

I feel afraid to publicly speak up about the harmful agenda of many TRAs. The blatant misogyny, disregard for women's safety, dismissal of women's rights, and even safeguarding of children, are just a few things that deeply concern me.

What can we do to be heard? Are we allowed to express our views without being reported for hate speech?! (Meanwhile, TRAs spew all sorts of threats and hate speech, which is apparently deemed as ok).

Well, it doesn’t make me laugh. I live it. And I have to allocate student housing in shared bedrooms on the basis of gender, not sex. Which means your daughter could be allocated a bedroom with an intact male and be accused of transphobia if she has the confidence to ask to be moved.
Funny it ain’t.

It’s an odd thing to welcome a global pandemic because it removes the possibility of shared sex bedrooms. But here we are.

I agree, not a lot about this is making me laugh.

Try keeping your job as well as your self respect, when required to put pronouns in your email.

Thinking women are being shat upon from a great height.

@nachthexe , hopefully the sunlight will come soon.

I have spent lockdown making DD11 fully gender critical. She won’t bat an eyelid at what people wear, but has seen many charts of teenage boys competing with Olympic women. She is well aware of the impact of male puberty.

She also does not think that any girl should be forced to see a penis regardless of how the owner of the penis identifies (we started with the example “If daddy felt like a woman tomorrow, do you think it would be ok for him to shower with you and your friends?”).

My DD would be nice and smiley to you and call me immediately to discuss how this could be resolved in a non-hostile way. Hopefully there are a lot of girls like her out there !!

This was transcribed by Mumfun for another thread, but it fits here, I think:

ANDREW DOYLE Yes you will have seen JK Rowling in the press a number of times over the past few months surrounding this issue. The latest development is that she has returned an award that she was given last year, this was the Ripple of Hope honour by the Robert F Kennedy Foundation emmm and what has happened is that the President of that foundation, Kerry Kennedy who is the daughter of Robert Kennedy has said that JK Rowling is effectively transphobic , that she has expressed views that diminish the identity of transpeople. This is an absolutely shameful accusation . I have to say that I have never seen anyone more misrepresented generally speaking than JK Rowling over the past couple of months, and if anyone is actually interested in what she generally believes, they can read JK Rowling’s very sensitive and compassionate blog post that she published a couple of months and she outlined her concerns. And what she is saying is that she is concerned about women’s rights. She is worried that single sex spaces can be compromised if someone can simply identify as a woman, and all of this is coming out of her experience as a victim of domestic abuse and she believes that biological sex is a reality. These are all legitimate positions to hold , not only that, they are the positions of most people in the country, but what is happening is a very small group..
INTERRUPTED BY INTERVIEWER
INTERVIEWER: To be fair Andrew, to be fair she has really upset a lot of transgender people in this country, who feel absolutely undermined by what she has said
ANDREW DOYLE I actually disagree with that. A lot of the support that has come out for Rowling has come from transpeople themselves and they don’t like the fact that transpeople are being smeared by this small group of very aggressive activists who, I’m afraid to say, have expressed extreme misogyny towards JK Rowling. I’ve seen a lot of the abuse that’s being going on . A lot of it does come from a place of misogyny , and as Blaire White, the American trans writer has pointed out, transpeople are sick of it and they don’t like these attacks that are going on, particularly the misogynistic abuse. And I think JK Rowling has been extremely courageous , standing up for her principles, refusing to be bullied, refusing to be silenced and I think we should all take a leaf out of that book, and I don’t like the fact that she has been misrepresented and I think it’s unfair

Which means your daughter could be allocated a bedroom with an intact male and be accused of transphobia if she has the confidence to ask to be moved.

As someone who has shared mixed sex flats at uni / mixed sex accommodation youth hostels etc, and read all the nonsense that is happening - what you describe still stands out as absolutely appalling.

Are there many shared rooms still left?

I don't think we are in the minority. That's not been my experience, although I'm mid-30s and have come a LONG way in my views and experience over the past few years. Mid-20s I had some seriously questionable ideas about the world.

Self ID is downright dangerous and I think most people thinking through the consequences would not be in favour. Many horribly misogynistic men (and institutions) are using trans rights as a protective umbrella under which they can do and say anything to erode the rights, protections, freedoms and dignity of women - the very thing transwomen claim they want to be.

However it should be borne in mind that those with a GRC are protected by the Equalities Act (gender reassignment is a protected characteristic) and if we want it to sex-based protection it should also protection gender reassignment based protection. That is a world away from self ID in my view.

'Inclusivity' has been highjacked to mean 'inclusive to men identifying in any way' and does not appear to advance women, BAME, disabled or any other group that may benefit from 'inclusive' policies, funding and education.

Fear not OP. I've had some dark, dark moments this summer over everything. It's worrying and upsetting and depressing, especially now I have children to raise in this strange and scary world. But you're not alone. You just need to look around and you'll find us

However it should be borne in mind that those with a GRC are protected by the Equalities Act (gender reassignment is a protected characteristic) and if we want it contain to sex-based protection it should also contain gender reassignment based protection. That is a world away from self ID in my view.

Sorry this paragraph was a mess in my post above. Wish we could edit

@FloralTeacup this is the problem with social media, it doesn't reflect real life.

I am surrounded by a lot of “woke” types on SM, so their views are skewing my overall outlook

That's why so many people were utterly surprised and taken aback by the last ejection result. If you live your life online / through social media especially with others who share the same views or virtue signalling or scared to disagree in any way or form then this is what you get. People thinking that "most" people think that way when their collective actions speak otherwise.

You're not in the minority. We're not a society of ridiculous anime avatars / keyboard warriors like the ilk who laid into JKR. A lot of large corporations/businesses/charities/government departments are being rainbow washed into thinking they are being "inclusive, kind, whatever" and it's anything but, most sensible people can see through that once they scratch the surface. The truth will out.

Sorry, only just seen all of your replies. Thank you for so much insight!

To those who said there’s nothing to laugh about, you’re right, I’m sorry! I only meant it makes me laugh in a “what a fucking joke” type of way. It is genuinely horrifying and shocking that people can lose their jobs over refusing to use pronouns.

Self-ID is so dangerous. It horrifies me that a straight man could put on his wife’s lipstick and expect to be welcomed in to the ladies’ changing rooms.

However it should be borne in mind that those with a GRC are protected by the Equalities Act (gender reassignment is a protected characteristic) and if we want it to sex-based protection it should also protection gender reassignment based protection. That is a world away from self ID in my view.

You should see some of the people that GRC have been awarded to. I agree that gender reassignment protection from discrimination should remain in the EA, but I think it should be entirely separate from sex in every way. And that "legal gender" should be unhooked from "sex" as well.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

However it should be borne in mind that those with a GRC are protected by the Equalities Act (gender reassignment is a protected characteristic) and if we want it to sex-based protection it should also protection gender reassignment based protection. That is a world away from self ID in my view.

You should see some of the people that GRC have been awarded to. I agree that gender reassignment protection from discrimination should remain in the EA, but I think it should be entirely separate from sex in every way. And that "legal gender" should be unhooked from "sex" as well.

The really important document is the birth certificate, a GRC is only for proof of gender change to whoever has a legal need to know. The birth certificate has a box marked "sex", so does a passport for that matter. In that box will be the new sex (not gender) of the GRC holder. So we can assume that is a change of sex. This is what the whole trans rights campaign was about since 1971, the right to a corrected birth certificate.

@Ereshkigalangcleg:
"You should see some of the people that GRC have been awarded to."

That's a very unfeminist thing to say. I presume you are in favour of beauty contests. Or do you mean trans men?

I was assuming ereshkigalangcleg was referring to backgrounds and criminal history? Unfortunately it appears that also trans women commit sexual assault (I believe we were talking about safety?).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/8647171/transgender-woman-sexually-assaulted-girl-morrisons/amp/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8521787/amp/Paedophile-54-used-public-Wi-Fi-download-child-porn-hospital.html

I don’t really see what looks has to do with safe guarding? Or why anyone on this board would even consider looks?

@ThinEndoftheWedge

Which means your daughter could be allocated a bedroom with an intact male and be accused of transphobia if she has the confidence to ask to be moved.

As someone who has shared mixed sex flats at uni / mixed sex accommodation youth hostels etc, and read all the nonsense that is happening - what you describe still stands out as absolutely appalling.

Are there many shared rooms still left?

More than 50% of our accom is shared bedroom. I’m not counting shared flats with single bedrooms. Right now we are using them at half occupancy for distancing. I hope we never go back, but I don’t know who will pick up the tab.

There are plenty of none GC people out there. Don't be so sure you are in the majority and everyone is just 'not speaking up' or 'uneducated'

There is a lot of misinformation and bias on MN.

Also don't be so sure that every GC person has no issue with trans women, they really do. 20 years ago they world have disliked gay people. That's a fact. Argue all you like. This is an echo chamber anyway.

There are plenty of bigots hiding under the GC term.

Part of the process of gaining a GRC is living as your preferred gender and yet Freddie McConnell became pregnant after identifying as a man and applying for a GRC

Pregnancy & childbirth are the most female of things and one would think Freddie would be deeply traumatised by having to go through it & yet they chose to do so

@Mammatino

In my own personal experience we are definitely not in the minority, most people sidle up to the topic (to check they aren’t going to get called a filthy bigot), sigh a huge sigh of relief and explain how they feel. I’ve never ever heard any transphobia, just genuine concern for themselves and their daughters safety. Also a real concern for trans people and vulnerable young people. When we discuss self ID they are worried, when we discuss young lesbians being bullied into having sex with people with a penis they are horrified. When we discuss mutilating youngsters they are fucking angry.

Who the h*ll are you talking too, does your info come from the daily mail?

The ignorance on this forum is startling. I'm out.

All the best 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

@nachthexe

Well, it doesn’t make me laugh. I live it. And I have to allocate student housing in shared bedrooms on the basis of gender, not sex. Which means your daughter could be allocated a bedroom with an intact male and be accused of transphobia if she has the confidence to ask to be moved. Funny it ain’t.

Cool story.

@Skyliner001

So leave, then?

Skyliner001 drops a rainbow poop bomb and departs. So surprising. Then doesn't leave after all

Who the h*ll are you talking too, does your info come from the daily mail? Actually what Mammatino described sounds like real life to me, where does your info come from?

OP the "misinformation and bias" that Sky scorns must be in their own head. We are people with trans family and friends. And are lesbian or have lesbian and gay family and friends. We do not hate, we just do not want to see women's rights trampled. I wonder if Sky would be so generous? Would they, for instance, agree that the treatment of JKR was absolutely inexcusable? For it was.

@Skyliner001 well it’s the story that pays my mortgage, and the story that means I have to find ways to maintain women’s rights to sex segregated spaces whilst guarding against being accused of transphobia, bringing the university into disrepute, and losing my job, so maybe you should try the real world, instead of whichever refined little bubble you prefer to inhabit? Some of us actually care about doing the right thing for ALL of the people we come into contact with. That includes people who identify as trans (if they declare this and request single accom we provide without question. Odd that we don’t offer females the same priority.) I will not have women’s rights to sex segregated sleeping spaces disappeared because some people decide that ‘gender’ should be the allocating identifier. Not if the women are unaware.
Sorry for giving a fuck about female students and all.

@skyliner I just talk to people who are worried. I don’t read the daily mail.

Haha, Skyliner was telling me the other day I was wrong about cross dressers and fetishists falling under the trans umbrella. Didn't come back when they were proven wrong by numerous posters.

Doesn't even know themselves what they're defending, so 🤷‍♀️