How to not alienate my 13yo?

[accessorizequeen]

I talked last night with my 13yo DS about JKR and trans issues. It came up because my Dsis is anti-JKR and has previously called me transphobic for not wanting to be called Cis. My Dsis is very dear to me and incredibly supportive, so I’ve no desire to get into arguments with her. My DS assumed wrongly that I believed TWAW. Seemed very upset and horrified that I did not, although he agreed people couldn’t change sex. He said a Transwoman became a woman when they had transitioned and I was denying this. I didn’t manage to get the importance of language over to him. I did say that a huge proportion of TW never have surgery. He shut down on me and I sense that he is upset and shocked by my stance. He has said in the past he would like to be a girl, I’ve certainly wondered if he was trans at times, and he’s certainly a feminine boy. I do not wish him to feel that I’m not supportive of him, but I am at a loss how I should continue. I sent him the link to JKR’s post and said I hoped he might read it. Help!

I have 10 year old diagnosed autistic and 12 year old suspected. They are both GC but my sister and my niece are TWAW. My niece asked me how my daughter would feel if she came out trans due to my views or she wouldn't feel supported. My reply was that my daughter would never be trans as she knows you cannot change sex.
I just don't talk to them now about it as it's not worth it.

I think focus on womens rights, there is always something to comment on, violence etc. In the news or local papers. Why are women targeted? Because of their sex. What about victims of abuse? Vulnerable women in prison? Fairness. I always find Fair Play for Women a good place for people to start.

I would focus on how brilliant it is that he is gender non conforming. But he will get called trans and asked if he is trans so discuss some responses. Autistic children seem very vulnerable to trans ideology and I think it is that black and white thinking.

The 80s were great for this. Pink and blue separations were brought about for marketing purposes so you can discuss this in terms of big business and profit.

My girls want to do 'male' jobs. My 12 year old, wants to be a pilot but is frequently told by peers she can't because she is a girl. Next time a boy tells her that she is going to ask why do I need a penis to control the plane?

On being kind I don't like this because for vulnerable people it opens them up to abuse and manipulation. I'm a domestic abuse survivor and me being kind meant I stayed in that relationship for 14 years.

When my daughter took the Brownie promise I had to talk to her about it because it says put others first, but I disagree you need to look after yourself and make sure you are safe emotionally and physically before putting others first. Putting your own needs first is not selfish it makes you think about who you do help.

My 12 year old daughter is very like me so I was concerned she would be too empathic and as she grows and be manipulated.

Just take the drip drip approach. My 10 year old autistic gets angry when I talk about this subject as it makes her feel so uncomfortable so don't push it.

I think I would make a clear differentiation between sex and gender/gender identity.

You said your son doesn't think that people can change sex, so he knows that there is a difference between the two. Would he be comfortable with the idea that a transwoman can have a body that is still biologically male, but a female gender identity or feminine gender preferences?

I know that it can be very frustrating to entertain the idea of a gender identity at all (because it's nebulous, badly defined and usually reduces to crude stereotypes). But for kids, "identity" is often about "stuff I like" -- including clothes, music, sports, books, films and peer/friendship groups.

This gets a bit confused when activists compare these fluid, personal identity concepts with a (false) essentialist position that your biological sex determines what you like / are supposed to like. So that if you don't accept the concept of a personal gender identity, you effectively disapprove of people having interests/preferences that don't conform to gendered stereotypes.

If that's where your son is at the moment, he may feel that unless he accepts that a transwoman becomes a biological woman when they transition, that his own exploration of gender is wrong -- and that if you don't completely affirm that TWAW that you disapprove of his choices or are judging him negatively: it feels personal to him.

It sounds like your son has a lot of empathy for people who are not able to express themselves the way they want perhaps because of his experience with his dad getting upset about him using makeup. Maybe one of the things he needs right now, rather than getting in deep on gender theory, is just affirmation that you support him in exploring his clothes/make-up preferences, and that you love him for all parts of who he is not just his gender identity, but all the other things that make him uniquely him.

Have a look at Debbie Hayton

twitter.com/DebbieHayton?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Debbie is a trans woman who rejects the TWAW rhetoric.

As he is ASD maybe a series of situations you could look at together

eg If a trans teenager goes to hospital with a broken arm, Peter Tatchel l believes the medical professionals should not ask about any hormone treatments. But, a full medical history includes any operations / treatments / injuries / illnesses. Also some drugs used by trans people can cause bone thinning and making them more prone to broken bones.

What his is opinion?

For some medical investigations the HCP has to take age, sex, and race into account to give accurate results. A trans woman retains male lungs so if the HCP inputs 'female' the results may come back as normal when the person has asthma or another lung condition, but if the HCP enters 'male' then the result is more acurate.

TWAW also silences trans women who want to tell their story. Everyone has a life story and it is a personal choice whether you make that public. Caitlyn Jenner was a man who won olympic gold. If your ds was writing about Jenner's life how would he write about the previous career of Ms Jenner? The TWAW mantra means reporting that a woman won the decathlon, when it isn't a woman's event. This also skews olympic history which excluded women from many events, it was only in 2012 that there were as many events for women as men and where every country sent both male and female athletes.

What about aborted female fetuses in China and India? (and other places) How can they be aborted if sex is 'assigned at birth'.

Karen White - should KW be in a male or female prison? Who needs more 'protection' KW or vulnerable women.

I don't mean go through these all at once, but a discussion, and it has to be a discussion not a lecture, should bring up some interesting points.

You’re all so much more on it than I am! I’ve discussed feminism quite a bit with my 16yoDS and my DD11. But not gender or sex although it’s been a huge focus for me for quite some time and I read a lot on here and Twitter. I follow Debbie Hayton already @sashh she’s very good I agree.

@queenofknives The quizzes look brilliant, thank you for the link.

@InvisibleDragon I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. He’s recently been rejected by his DF and the only child who didn’t attend his wedding. I feel for him and don’t want to make things worse.

Another topic to throw into the discussion is football - in the Uk it’s seen very much as a male game - football crowds are overwhelmingly male, the big money is with the men, it’s a career that many little (and not so little!) boys dream of, aspire to and follow. There are women that play and the female professional game is getting a little more recognition these days but compared to the men it’s still seen as a minority thing. Lots of people would also use very male words to describe the game,the players, their skills, their attributes, the followers and so on. If they were the sort of person that was making lists of boys vs girls activities, it would be put into the boys list.

However in the US, soccer (aka football) is very much a girls/women’s game. Players, skills, attributes etc all very much seen as female.

So - let the interesting discussions flow... is it a male or female game? If it is different but correct on each country then if a male football player goes to the US or a female American player comes here - does that mean they should change their gender? And what if they go to s country that doesn’t really play it at all and it’s seen as just a game rather than a boys or girls game?

And what makes this game different from tennis or athletics etc where both men and women are celebrated in their sports much more equally (I know not perfectly equal yet but much better then football). And for something like weightlifting or boxing where the classes change every few kg because small differences make such a difference, if someone puts on a little bit of weight so goes over the class boundary, do you #bekind and let them compete ontheir usual weight category even though they now have a technically illegal advantage or do you make them compete in a different group? How would the others in the group feel if they had to fight and lose to the heavier competitor - would they think I must be kind to them or that it’s being unkind to me? Or is sport intrinsically unkind as the whole point is to create winners and losers?

You get the idea... But doesn’t need to be about TWAW explicitly - a separate discussion that can inform subsequent discussions and help with critical thinking.

Invisible women is a great book with interesting content - probably a bit much to read at 13 bit around the time it was published there were several great articles of varying lengths covering some of the topics covered that would also be interesting to discuss about things that will affect women and transmen but not transwomen - medicine dosages and/or efficacy, PPE that doesn’t protect, office temperature being set for men’s best operating temp not women, higher death rates in car accidents for females in the front seat Vs men because they don’t test on women properly but assume that using a smaller male dummy would work as a passenger (not even a driver!) instead.