Caitlin Moran in the Guardian today

[RoyalCorgi]

I promise I'm not trying to start another argument about Caitlin Moran. It's just that I want to record my annoyance and despair at her rewriting of history. Apparently in the 1980s there were no female role models for girls apart from Mrs Thatcher and Miss Piggy. And no one ever wrote about female masturbation until Caitlin wrote about it in her 2011 book. Plus more in that vein.

I remember back in the 80s reading Dale Spender's marvellous book "Women of ideas and what men have done to them" where she painstakingly writes in detail at the lives of amazing historical women - scientists, philosophers, writers, campaigners - and looks at how they were simply forgotten about and written out of history. Thanks in part to Spender's work, female historians went about the business of researching more forgotten women and writing their biographies.

Now it seems as if all the work of feminists in the 70s and 80s on, for example, female sexuality or in political campaigning has just been forgotten about. Feminists hadn't achieved anything of note until Caitlin Moran wrote How to be a Woman.

Once again, women's achievements are being written out of history.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/29/caitlin-moran-reread-how-to-be-a-woman-marvel-what-i-got-wrong

I was definitely reading feminist writers in the 1970s as a teenager. If CM is saying that did not exist then she needs to do more research.

[quote serenada]@lucylocketspockets

Well, I guess it was progress of a sort . I remember my mum complaining about us wearing DMs as they weren't feminine and my grandmother astutely pointing out that my mother's feet were ruined from wearing stilettos as an adult and that we had more sense![/quote]
Ladettes were much maligned in the media though whereas the 'butch lesbians' of my day weren't mentioned in the mainstream media.

I still wear DMs now, I've got about 5 or 6 pairs of the shoes.

@lucys

best things ever. I lived in a house where I think at least 5 of us were size 4 Dm wearers. Never had anything so comfy in my life and good for your feet.

@IfNotNow123

Has anyone said Sue Townsend yet? If they have I'll say it again. She was a single mum with no money and she started writing plays, and of course, the Adrian Mole series among other things. One of the funniest, smartest women ever (RIP)

Love her. Not just her Adrian Mole books either. Rebuilding Coventry and The Queen and I are both worth reading.

Where exactly would she ever be exposed to different ideas, have discussions about books, or meet people with different life experiences?

Oh come off it- she moved to London when she was 18 and got a career in journalism. Why are you making excuses for her?

@Butterer

Yup, wearing DMs right now here... *@lucylocketspockets* - I remember kd lang getting tons of exposure in about 93, not sure whether we're talking the same generation With the ladette culture thing, does anyone remember the Girlie Show? Sara Cox, Sarah Cawood, Rachel Williams on a sofa being bawdy?

I was a teen in the 80s. It was the time of the discovery of HIV and the public service announcements on the television which shocked many because of the subject matter. Feminism was alive and kicking and there was some awareness of kd lang but not in the mainstream.

[quote DonnaQuixotedelaManchester]@lucys

best things ever. I lived in a house where I think at least 5 of us were size 4 Dm wearers. Never had anything so comfy in my life and good for your feet.[/quote]
My only DMs are the most cripplingly painful footwear I've ever owned. A complete waste of a lot of money. I have persevered and persevered but they are awful. And unwearable.

Are any of you in the grunge thread? There's some interesting discussions about women in that scene and female musicians. I did wonder if Britpop/lad culture was a backlash against that, but then you had Sleeper, Echobelly, Elastica, and later Catatonia and Kenickie as well (and Skunk Anansie, who aren't Britpop but were around at the same time).

@DidoLamenting My only DMs are the most cripplingly painful footwear I've ever owned. A complete waste of a lot of money. I have persevered and persevered but they are awful. And unwearable.

Shoes or boots? I haven't worn the boots for decades but the shoes do take some wearing in to really be as comfy as possible.

Nina Hagen, Poly Styrene. Siouxsie, Patti Smith, Debbie Harry, Chrissie Hynde, Kate Bush, Annie Lennox, Suzie Quatro......

@bellinisurge

The more I look at it the more I think the TRA trend of performing womanhood got such a tight hold because we didn't bother so much with feminism in the noughties. There's a whole generation of dolts that don't realise how important it is. I used to yawn about endless "women in rock" articles in the 80s covering Debbie Harry and Chrissie Hynde [write about the music, ffs]. Those tedious articles seem to be on repeat even now and we are all supposed to think it's cutting edge when a woman demonstrates sexuality by performing the way men think we all do.

I'm a bit drunk but the trans movement also doesn't acknowledge the gender-bending 70s and 80s. So many musicians and performers playing with gender, from Bowie to Boy George to bleedin' the Kemp brothers, from Grace Jones and Annie Lennox to KD Lang. None of them insisted they were actually the opposite sex. Such a creative and free time to live through, sadly look where we are now.

She has a hugely over inflated sense of her own importance doesn't she?!

I generally enjoy reading CM as a lightweight piece to chuckle at, and she gets the odd thing spot-on, but this has pissed me off.

"Masturbation, pornography, pubic hair, abusive relationships, wonky tits, menstruation, eating disorders, abortion, the madness of expensive weddings, sexism in the workplace, the pressure to have children, binge-drinking, the pain of childbirth, the joy of life as a modern woman: when I wrote How To Be A Woman in 2011, these were pretty novel subjects"

I deliberately avoided looking at 'How to be a woman' as the title made me roll my eyes SO HARD, and because I was, actually quite sick of HOT TAKES on all these things at that point. It's not like you can't predict what she'll say about these topics. Someone bought it for me for my birthday and I was weirdly mildly annoyed. I read it and it was a funny enough read but I've forgotten most of it. I also remember feeling very patronised at CM excitedly telling me to think things I'd already made deliberate choices to think when I was a teen (like not to give a shit about waxing etc). Expect I'd be more annoyed reading it now.

I was also a fan of Le Tigre (and 'She Bop')!

@DidoLamenting

Must be your feet.

Although I did hear that Dms are not the same since made abroad.

Bowie and so much of the 80s - Boy George, Steve Strange, Marilyn all played on the androgyny angle. Divine, anyone?

Pete Burns, Marc Almond (to a degree) - there were loads that played with sexuality plus Grace Jones, Annie Lennox, KD Lang, Tracey Chapman,

Anyone remember the film Boys Don't Cry with Hilary Swank? - absolutely heartbreaking and she was amazing in it.

Also lots of alternative stuff that played on roles Rocky Horror Show, Paris, Texas? Bagdad Cafe - might have got some films mixed up but I watched everything strange and obscure in the 80s.

@DidoLamenting well it's either lack of exposure or she's really fucking self-absorbed and thick, so I was trying to be charitable!

There has been a recent slew of older rock/pop/punk women writing biographies in recent years. I've really enjoyed the ones I've read. Some, I must say, have never really classed themselves, or particularly identified themselves, as feminists( Chrissie Hynde, Debbie Harry, Patti Smith, Brix Smith ). They liked, got on with, and survived in a male dominated world and very much saw themselves as individuals primarily - certainly from my reading.

Also, I thought CM was supposed to have read lots as a child? Didn't read her Judy Blume books then did she?

@Justhadathought

They liked, got on with, and survived in a male dominated world and very much saw themselves as individuals primarily

That's the definition of feminism I want to stick with.

Joan Armatrading, Björk, Lydia Lunch., Danielle Dax.

Tank Girl, Halo Jones (creates by men but loved by girls/women)

Love and Rockets comic books ❤️ about a group of young Mexican-American punk girls.
That was 90s, I think. Loved that!

She’s the one with the rich grandparents and posh parents who decided it would be cool to get a council house, right?

I searched that article for the word 'trans' and there is only one mention of it. I find that quite unbelievable since it's the biggest issue facing women's right at the moment, if not the past decade or more.

I have no issue with her talking about her experience of being a woman....but I think she has no longer has the credibility to write about feminism or use it as a word to describe her writing.

She's clearly pulled an 'All Lives Matter' on women and thinks it's acceptable as long as she does it with jazz hands!!

Loved the back stage film of Stevie Nicks.

I love my Docs but they do need a lot of breaking in! I went out clubbing once wearing Docs with fishnets. It was a bad idea.