We want to hear the gender critical viewpoint! Wait...no we don't

[EdgeOfACoin]

I came across this story on Saidit a few days ago and thought it worth sharing. It's a Twitter thread by a gender critical feminist, Olivia, who was invited by a teenage TRA to participate in "an interview with a terf" on Instagram to share her controversial views. However, although this interview was done at the request of the TRA's followers on Instagram, who said they wanted to hear the opposing argument, in the end they were so upset by Olivia's 'transphobic' views that the whole interview was taken down.

Here's a copy and paste of Olivia's first few posts. I'll link to the actual thread at the end, which is much longer and includes the interview. It's a fascinating read.

You can decide for yourself if Olivia was being transphobic or if the TRAs were just unable to deal with biological reality.

OliviaYellow heart*@terfalicious*
21 Aug
I recently was asked to participate in an “interview” by a teenage TRA, Amy, who helps run an Instagram page with ~20k followers. She was starting a series on her page where she interviewed people w controversial beliefs that their followers wanted to learn the “truth” about. 1/

OliviaYellow heart*@terfalicious*
21 Aug
Their followers voted for a “TERF” to be the first person interviewed and submitted questions for me to answer. I saw this as a way to dispel false notions about radical feminism, so I accepted, and I also recruited the help of @beyvibezz and @2003rapvideo. 2/

OliviaYellow heart*@terfalicious*
21 Aug
We each spent a considerable amount of time painstakingly writing out our answers to these questions in a way that we felt this mostly-teenage TRA audience would be receptive to. Amy was very respectful to us and labored over creating the graphic design for our interviews. 3/

OliviaYellow heart*@terfalicious*
21 Aug
Note: If you want to read the interview now, it will be at the end of the thread. For those of you who have read my carrd, it’s pretty much the same thing but I answered a few more questions that they asked. 4/

Olivia💛@terfalicious
21 Aug
My interview was the first and only to be posted. After less than an hour of being on their page, the backlash was so severe that the other admins of the page made the decision to delete the post and an another admin immediately posted a brief apology. 5/

mobile.twitter.com/terfalicious/status/1296755619593166849

I think this shows exactly what is going on at the moment. Who is coercing and who is being coerced.

I'm heartbroken at what's being done in the name of inclusivity, self identity, personal freedom and so-called kindness.

Those poor young admins who are now getting skewered. No room for any thinking at all - not just no room for speaking aloud but no room for thinking.

That's a lot of sticking fingers in your ears and 'La la we can't hear you'. The statement' T@@F does not deserve a platform.' Is utterly sinister. It's very much that women who do not buy into
the GI bollocks are not seen as human and that worries me.

I have a feeling that “Amy” will eventually come to a different opinion.

Also those graphics are lovely.

There’s nothing at all offensive in that interview- I’d be interested to see what those demanding it was taken down were offended by, but I won’t hold my breath.

I agree this sets out what is going on very clearly. Bully women and girls into submission as a demonstration of power. It’s like Heathers in real life. “What’s your damage” indeed.

I read this when it came out (I think there was a thread). It just shows how dependent they are on not moving from the ideological line. If they do, they lose their community. These people may have already ditched their family (or worse been ostracized ).

I am not saying that they don’t need to listen and think for themselves. But I no longer engage with the young people. it was this incident and Abigail Shier’s book that brought home the mess these young people face. So much damage that this ideology has wrought.

That would be hilarious if it wasnt so tragic.
Massive thanks and respect to Olivia and everyone speaking up for the truth.

Amy 💐 the graphics were very good

Olivia 💐

It's striking that they don't have any arguments against Olivia's statements other than that they were hurtful and triggering. Not even an attempt at logic or conversation, just shut that down because it makes me sad.

As Olivia says in the thread:
"I can’t help but see this as being dangerously unhealthy. This person’s identity rests on a house of cards that requires constant validation to remain stable and collapses with one mention of biology."

Olivia said that quite a few made comments along the lines of "I kind of agree with her, but..."

I believe that's likely why they wanted it taken down. Not because it was transphobic, but because it opened some eyes.

It's sad, really. Some of those people sound young, vulnerable, and easily influenced. They've been brainwashed into believing biology isn't real by the more aggressive ones in their community, and it's irresponsible.

Life isn't a fairytale unfortunately, and being in denial about the facts of it helps no one.

Are the people who objected teenagers themselves? I can't tell and quite honestly, at that age I used to cut people out of my life for not liking Joni Mitchell.

I reserve my anger and my contempt for the adults.

@Floisme

Are the people who objected teenagers themselves? I can't tell and quite honestly, at that age I used to cut people out of my life for not liking Joni Mitchell.

I reserve my anger and my contempt for the adults.

I think they are mainly teenagers, though there are probably one or two adults in there pushing for the interview to be removed.

It's not so much contempt and anger I feel, more sadness and frustration. Someone has been lying to these kids and telling them biological sex isn't real. This fantasy worldview means that when someone points out, politely but firmly, that every cell in a male-bodied person is coded XY, they can't handle it. This biological fact exacerbates their gender dysphoria.

Therefore they shut down the debate and refuse to read further.

As has been said already, these teenagers' entire perception of themselves is built on a house of cards. One day the house is going to fall, and the results will be devastating.

I worry so much for teenagers who have got caught up in this. Not just for those who believe they are trans and take steps towards it, but those who are caught up in this terrifying situation where they cannot stray from the right version of "the truth" even when it blatantly contradicts what they can see in front of their eyes.

What does this do to their future ability to question sources, or uphold their own boundaries? They are being trained to be compliant before all else, even their own well being.

I would guess there are adults who are steering this and young people following the line.

I feel for science teachers. Will they be accused of hate speech?

Jesus Christ, it’d make you weep.

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

You take a step forward, he takes a step back.

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

Amy, love, you didn’t do anything wrong. Switch off the internet and find some nicer friends.

God, this is seriously frightening. The grovelling apologies, the "Thank you for your deserved criticism" and "I'm very sorry for the damage I caused".

Anyone else thinking of the Cultural Revolution in China? The screaming teenaged Red Guards forcing filthy intellectuals onto their knees with heads bowed to redeem themselves through self-criticism, if they survived the beating?

We've seen the mobs screaming at women who want to hold meetings. Now we know how we are meant to respond. My admiration for the targets of today's mobs, who refuse to kneel and self-criticise, is greater than ever.

That's compassionately written up by Olivia and kudos to Amy for publishing something thoughtful and based on what her followers wanted to know. Hope she's ok and not discouraged from publishing further interesting interviews.

Anyone else thinking of the Cultural Revolution in China? The screaming teenaged Red Guards forcing filthy intellectuals onto their knees with heads bowed to redeem themselves through self-criticism, if they survived the beating?

Yes - I read White Swans after a discussion about it on this board. I find the parallels between then and now unsettling (although at least in this debate the majority of the abuse is non-physical and confined to Twitter).

There is a notion that university students are more intelligent than the average person and able to think critically about the ideas they have been presented with. We saw that view promoted heavily during the Brexit debates: uni students tended to vote Remain, ergo, Remain was the considered, 'intelligent' choice. No matter that most university students couldn't tell you the first thing about the workings of the EU or name its institutions.

The Cultural Revolution demonstrated how university students are just as susceptible to a lack of critical thought than anyone else, and just as likely to get swept up in mob mentality.

That's such a good interview. We should put those slides all together on one thread and use it as an FAQ to send to new posters.

Anyone else thinking of the Cultural Revolution in China? The screaming teenaged Red Guards forcing filthy intellectuals onto their knees with heads bowed to redeem themselves through self-criticism, if they survived the beating

Always think of this, especially with covid to be honest

I reread white swans last week funnily enough, its one of the most ‘battered’ books in my bookcase

TRA ideology must be protected at all cost from discussion and critical thinking.
Every view point that does not conform to the ideology must be taken down and the environment sanitized immediately.

They are just silencing women talking by "cry-bullying".

@Floisme

Are the people who objected teenagers themselves? I can't tell and quite honestly, at that age I used to cut people out of my life for not liking Joni Mitchell.

I reserve my anger and my contempt for the adults.

Yeh but not liking Joni , come on. Seriously I know what you mean though. I just got booted from a chat group and a page for saying I agreed with JKR re the Kennedy Award thing. The scary part is how young they all are to be completely opposed to free speech and debate.