Woman sues easyJet

[Letmegetthisrightasawoman]

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/27/woman-sues-easyjet-after-being-told-to-move-seats-due-to-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men

Seriously, why can't these men move??? Surely they're aware that not everyone shares their beliefs and that there would be no problem if it weren't for these beliefs? As in: most women wouldn't have a problem sitting next to an orthodox Jewish man, but the reverse does not apply. Surely the onus must therefore be on them to move? It's bad enough that they believe women are so inferior/ dangerous that they can't sit next to them, but they then insist that they must accept this sexism and accommodate it. I bloody well hope she wins!!!

As she should.

Imagine asking someone to move for any other immutable characteristic. Imagine white men asking a black woman to move. Imagine the absolute outcry.

But somehow discriminating against women on the basis of their sex and your religion is fine and dandy?

Shame on all those who sat by and watched.

These men need to pay for an extra seat if they need to protect themselves from impure women.

Totally. I didn't take the angle of religion and the right to equality because religion is also a protected characteristic. I guess the answer would be that everyone's rights should be protected as long as they don't encroach on other people's rights does this sound familiar?. What really pisses me off is that there is an easy solution - the men moving - that would get them what they want without inconveniencing and discriminating against someone who doesn't share their belief. But no. They're so convinced they're right that everyone must have their beliefs rammed down their throats. The sheer arrogance of insisting your rights trump someone else's is infuriating!

Good for her. She really should win and I hope she does

Again? There have been quite a few news reports about this happening over the years.

What I find weird about it is that on an easyJet flight I'd not imagine (but maybe I'm wrong) that being a huge company based in Europe all the flight attendants would be au fair with the ins and outs of orthodox Jewish beliefs?

And so why their reaction to this request wasn't what on earth? Don't get it. Why they automatically said ok we'll move her.

What are these men saying I wonder that gets these requests granted time after time.

Should it say sex instead of gender?

I hope she wins

I hope she wins too. Well done to her for trying and an amazing well done to the Holocaust survival who, in the article, sued El Al for the same thing and won!!

Nothing to do with religion - that's just the excuse. If it was, you'd also have Ultra-Orthodox women getting the cabin crew to move men seated next to them. I wonder how often that happens?

I've sat next to an Ultra-Orthodox Jewish man on a flight. He ignored me, was scrupulously careful not to touch me. Which is of course perfect when you're all sardined into a plane. I understood and did likewise. Hey, guess what - he was not struck down by a bolt of lightning.

Question.

If she had told the attendants she identifed as a man, would everyone have said ok then?

No of course they wouldn't.

The orthodox rules they were following are based in sex.

I don't think the TRAs have taken on these sorts of things have they? That orthodox religions of many types would not recognise self id and are therefore transphobic.

I haven't seen anything, has anyone else?

@NiceGerbil What are these men saying I wonder that gets these requests granted time after time.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about this. I imagine flight crew consider asking a woman to move to be the easier option. Probably perceived to be less confrontational than refusing to bow to someone's religious demands.

WRT the crew being au fait with orthodox Jewish rules: I'd imagine a lot of the crew might be Israeli.

If she had told the attendants she identifed as a man, would everyone have said ok then?

I soooo wish she had. The fallout would be epic.

@JellySlice

Nothing to do with religion - that's just the excuse. If it was, you'd also have Ultra-Orthodox women getting the cabin crew to move men seated next to them. I wonder how often that happens?

I've sat next to an Ultra-Orthodox Jewish man on a flight. He ignored me, was scrupulously careful not to touch me. Which is of course perfect when you're all sardined into a plane. I understood and did likewise. Hey, guess what - he was not struck down by a bolt of lightning.

See, I would be sad that I would be considered so harmful that someone would go out of their way not to interact with me, purely because I'm a woman. However, I would respect it entirely, as they are taking care not to inconvenience me and not foisting their beliefs on me.

I haven't seen anything, has anyone else?

There was talk of a legal challenge to the City of London by Orthodox Jewish women over Hampstead ladies' pond, but that seems to have gone quiet so maybe they just don't go there any more.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

If she had told the attendants she identifed as a man, would everyone have said ok then?

I soooo wish she had. The fallout would be epic.

I had thought of this too She should have had a hissy fit about being misgendered Wouldn't it be fun to see if a trans woman would insist on being moved in this situation?

LetMe

Good point about the cabin crew mainly being Israeli, I'm not sure how cabin crews work.

In that case they would have known it was illegal to ask her to move, though?

Also the religion isn't an excuse, because if it wasn't related to that why would they do it?

Women tend to be smaller and less spready than men, better to sit next to a woman than a man in a flight usually?

Yup. Didn't stop them though. And judging by the article, there are many other crews who would also rather put a woman out than tell men to mind their own business and move if they have a problem 🤷

Ugh similar happens in hotels all the time from middle eastern men, when I was a reception supervisor I was working with a male trainee whilst a large city wide event had brought a lot of international tourists to the area.

These men would wait to be served by him which became comical when I had to then go over to assist as it was his second shift.

Also didn't stop them hours later calling down asking me to procure them a prostitute, apparently that communication was ok.

If she had told the attendants she identifed as a man, would everyone have said ok then?

Yes, they'd either have had to discriminate against a religious person or a trans person, and as trans people are the most vulnerable minority [FACT], they'd have to discriminate the religious ones.

(Just for clarification, when it comes to religious men vs women, religious men count as more important.)

This has given me so much fucking rage for my Friday morning! Thanks
If it is essential for their religion not to sit next to a woman they need to buy an extra seat which cab remain vacant. Not that I think discrimination based on religious beliefs is OK but at least it keeps it as their own problem.

That's because the man you sat next to was not a dick who used his religion as an excuse for self-aggrandisement, but an ordinary man who understood that his faith existed alongside other ways of life in the real world.

I have sat next to those types as well. They are unnoticeable because they don't make a fuss. They are also the people who bring goodness into the world, unlike the people who think they are good because they are intolerant.

Good luck to the woman bringing this case.

Still trying to work out how this kind of thing happens.

As ever, it is seen as the woman's job to placate men. Men's hurt feelings matter more than women's.

This type of case has been heard before:

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/22/israeli-airline-cant-make-women-move-seats-for-religious-reasons-court-rules

'Describing the practice as “discriminatory” Israeli judge, Dana Cohen-Lekah, who heard Rabinwotz’s complaint, on Thursday ruled that “under absolutely no circumstances can a crew member ask a passenger to move from their designated seat because the adjacent passenger doesn’t want to sit next to them due to their gender”.

Cohen-Lekah said the policy was a “direct transgression” of the Israeli discrimination laws relating to products and services.'

There is a woman in NW London asking for a Jewish woman to help to find her lost cat. The men won't speak to her.

It is not just the Jewish religion that have strong beliefs but it does make it very difficult to respect them. Religions should be compassionate.