Meeting naturists when hill walking - would you be worried?

[JGACC]

Hi all, I'm interested to gather women's thoughts on this. I read a Facebook post by Macclesfield police this morning asking people to report if they see a male naturist in the Peak District (screenshot attached) as there has been a lot of reports over the last few weeks. I was really surprised that the vast majority of the comments are saying it's legal (which yes it is) and to leave him alone. As a young female who often walks in the Peaks on my own my first thought was...I'd be worried and extremely uncomfortable if I came across him and would probably hide behind a tree or rock and try to call someone. Am I paranoid or is this actually fine and something I should take as lightly as the majority of the (mostly, but not all male) commenting public seem to?

I'll admit I was surprised to learn that it is entirely legal to wander round anywhere nude. It does seem a lot of naturists have no sexual intent and are more interested in being at one with nature. The man in question doesn't seem to have been reported as carrying out threatening behaviour and is probably harmless but it still makes me worried and I don't know if I'm ridiculous or not. (I would rather be ridiculous than not in this case!)

@Devlesko

It's legal, leave them alone. Don't look if you don't want to. Put your mask over your eyes. See it has a dual purpose.

So you expect me to turn my back on any naked man I meet, when out walking? How about he fucks off to one of the areas where naturists are welcome to run around with their bollocks on show, then were all happy. Or does his right to walk naked, where he knows he will meet people and possibly frighten them, over rule women and children, or indeed some men’s right to feel safe?

@Devlesko

It's legal, leave them alone. Don't look if you don't want to. Put your mask over your eyes. See it has a dual purpose.

Yeah flowers, just shut your mouth and cover your eyes if you ever come across a random naked man out in the sticks.

What's the worst that could happen?

It's not an offence to be naked - otherwise naturists clubs etc couldn't exist either. But the CPS guidelines say (2015) a balance needs to be struck between the naturists right to freedom of expression and the right of the wider public to be protected from harassment, alarm and distress
Indecent exposure is an offence under s66 Sexual Offences Act (intentional exposure of genitals and intend for someone to see them and be caused alarm or distress)
Harassment S5 Public Order Act
Outraging public decency under common law.
So, in a nutshell, it's not illegal to be naked but it may well become an offence if someone is shocked, offended, distressed or alarmed by seeing you naked.

@Antibles

I know some naturists like to be nude when home alone, so it's not just about the communal aspects.

I've been known to wander around nude when home alone but I don't think that qualfies me as a naturist so it must be the public or communal aspect that defines naturism.

No, it's the "philosophy".

If you go around nude at home just because, it's not naturism. If you do it because you believe that being nude is healthy and it's good for people to be naked, than you are a naturist.

There is a fine line mind you between someone who likes being naked and doesn't refer it to some kind of program, and someone who likes it and calls it naturism. Naturists are often inclined to do group events if they are available but many also go nude at home.

Thank you to all for your responses so far. I'm glad to know I'm not the only snowflake/easily offended/prude/ reasonable adult female ;)
The responses and attitude on the Facebook post make me really, really cross actually. I just don't understand how someone can insist on that sort of behaviour knowing it can make others uncomfortable and potentially the area unusable for people with trauma and diverse religious beliefs. I am fortunate to have neither but can recognise his behaviour would have even more negative effect on those who do.

@DianasLasso

I understand why people find a naked man disturbing or traumatic when they are so rare, which means that almost all our references are to do with flashing or il intent.

But that's precisely the point. Yes, it may well be sad that our culture is so uptight about nudity. However, it is what it is, and furthermore, all of us who grew up here know this. Therefore choosing to transgress those boundaries in the knowledge that you are likely to disturb people by doing so is an odd choice.

At best it's a form of selfishness: "my liberated continental viewpoint is morally better than your uptight British standpoint, so sod off, you prudes" (which we've seen several times on this thread). At worst it's definitely about getting a sexual kick from other people's unwilling participation in your naked display.

I find it interesting that we've had differing viewpoints from naturists on this thread, one who thinks it should be confined to clearly designated areas and another who thinks it's okay to make use of any bit of the countryside, but concedes that most of the male naturists she knows would cover themselves if they realised they were about to encounter other people, so as not to upset those other people.

The first time I encountered the Ilkley naturist (in a thick fog in winter!), I did immediately think "mental health issues" and in fact sent my male companion to check he was okay.

I'm not convinced by the argument that expecting clothes means we are uptight.

Every human society has ideas around privacy. They don't always define it the same way and how it's defined has a lot to do with the environment. Public nudity tends to be limited in places where it can be very cold, or the sun is very hot and damaging. If people live in close quarters or not. Etc.

That doesn't however mean that they think that private things are bad or impure.

I do think our society has become increasingly uncomfortable with bodies in some ways - the changes around attitudes to nudity in single sex change rooms are an example. But those seem to have occurred along side of an increase of overtly sexualised nudity in the media, advertising, even in women's clothing more generally. It's not because we expect people to be dressed in town or on a public path.

goosefoot thank you for having a crack at the question I asked. You said:

.. I guess what I wonder is, is it really seeing the penis that's the issue?..

And you went on to make some good points which I mostly agree with, but I think that focussing on the penis is good idea. If the general rule/law was - you keep it out of view unless given special permission (clubs, signposted beach's etc.) then that's so easy to understand that anyone could er, grasp it. It isn't the law though from what pps have said. Pity.

I don't understand what you meant by this other bit and am now very curious indeed. Could you elaborate? Thanks..

... If I went into a mixed sex public bath I wouldn't care about male nudity, at my local YMCA I'd be annoyed.

What would annoy you?

@SocialMedea

goosefoot thank you for having a crack at the question I asked. You said:

.. I guess what I wonder is, is it really seeing the penis that's the issue?..

And you went on to make some good points which I mostly agree with, but I think that focussing on the penis is good idea. If the general rule/law was - you keep it out of view unless given special permission (clubs, signposted beach's etc.) then that's so easy to understand that anyone could er, grasp it. It isn't the law though from what pps have said. Pity.

I don't understand what you meant by this other bit and am now very curious indeed. Could you elaborate? Thanks..

... If I went into a mixed sex public bath I wouldn't care about male nudity, at my local YMCA I'd be annoyed.

What would annoy you?

The law is a blunt instrument. It often can't include context and if it's too inflexible it can create problems too. A public place could be a park or a sauna, and the context for nudity is quite different.

Really, the social contract is the thing. And in most western societies what we see is our sexual organs and even some of our secondary sexual characteristics are treated differently. Usually they remain covered in public situations though there are degrees and exceptions. It isn't totally static - beach outfits are far more bare than would have been acceptable 150 years ago, we don't expect hats in public and it's not been considered in the same way as nudity for even longer, etc.

I don't remember now what I meant by other bits! Maybe other sexual parts of the body?

I would be annoyed by nudity at my local Y, in the pool, because it infringes on the social contract which is disrepectful. In the change room of course it would be fine.

@Trailing1

A man was found wandering naked in the children's play park next to the local primary and nursery school. I dont think being nude in public around others is acceptable.

The rambler in the woods wouldn't bother me.

But it's inappropriate at a playground.

@LillianBland

Christ, some posters on here really are determined to break down women’s boundaries, aren’t they? It doesn’t matter what the majority of female posters want, or in this case don’t want, they must submit to the demands of those who want to be naked in their presence.

Can we just stop limiting this to "women's boundaries"

No matter how hard some posters are suggesting otherwise it is NOT common practice to be naked in public in the UK except in areas where it is expected and the public know in advance.

Anyone outwith those special areas is entitled to expect people to be wearing clothes. That includes men and boys.

A person breaking that social convention might be completely harmless but they might not. In Scotland such behaviour is a breach of the peace.

My own personal boundary is that I would like to consent in some way to being in the presence of a naked person

As I've said several times, not wanting to be in the presence of a naked person unless one has consented is not a special preserve of being female. It has nothing to do with being "fainting flowers"

No matter how hard some posters are suggesting otherwise it is NOT common practice to be naked in public in the UK except in areas where it is expected and the public know in advance.

Cultures can and do change though.
Before Elizabethan times women in England had to cover their hair. One reason Anne Boleyn got her head chopped off for adultery was because she wore a French hood hair covering that showed a bit of the hairline, and not the English hood that covered all your hair. So of course she was the sort of degenerate woman who would cheating on Henry VIII because she would show naked hair to the public.
Imagine if nothing had changed.....
Now imagine what is so bad about allowing naturism. It is a philosophy that decouples nudity from sexual connotations and judgements. It is proven to improve body positivity.

According to British Naturism:
Millions of people in the UK and around the world have discovered this wonderful way of life; a national survey by IPSOS-MORI in 2011 discovered that there are 3.7 million naturists in the UK.

Cultures can and do change though.

Naked blokes appearing unexpectedly aren't likely to be very effective agents of change though, are they? We don't know what this man's motives are, and in our current cultural context of course he's going to be met with mostly negative reactions of various sorts - from fear and mistrust to derision.

Now imagine what is so bad about allowing naturism. It is a philosophy that decouples nudity from sexual connotations and judgements. It is proven to improve body positivity.

Stop trying to conflate genuine naturism with exhibitionism.

We know the difference.
Naturists know the difference too.

@PlanDeRaccordement

No matter how hard some posters are suggesting otherwise it is NOT common practice to be naked in public in the UK except in areas where it is expected and the public know in advance.

Cultures can and do change though.
Before Elizabethan times women in England had to cover their hair. One reason Anne Boleyn got her head chopped off for adultery was because she wore a French hood hair covering that showed a bit of the hairline, and not the English hood that covered all your hair. So of course she was the sort of degenerate woman who would cheating on Henry VIII because she would show naked hair to the public.
Imagine if nothing had changed.....
Now imagine what is so bad about allowing naturism. It is a philosophy that decouples nudity from sexual connotations and judgements. It is proven to improve body positivity.

Completely irrelevant points.

It's grotesque. They're inflicting their choices, and usually gross bodies on people. I'd hate children to see it.

You know what, PlanDeRaccordement, I really couldn’t care less whether or not, nakedness is common in other cultures or that what is acceptable in cultures, changes. I have the right to object to naked people in areas that are open to members of the general public, who don’t want to participate in that particular hobby.

It will not harm, frighten or distress that person to either keep their clothes on or go naked in areas designated for that hobby. However, their nakedness is quite likely cause fear, offence or distress to the public that are confronted with a naked man. My rights and the rights of others to feel safe, absolutely trumps the rights of that weird person that insists on walking around naked in public. And anyone who insists on being naked, where they know they will meet others, rather than staying in areas designated naturist areas, is nothing but a weirdo. Anyone that also insists that I or others are wrong for feeling like that and must ignore our own feelings are also gaslighting weirdos.

Again with the hyperbole Plan. No one on this thread is accusing all naturist men of being perverted sex offenders. Nor are we necessarily clueless townies with no experience of the countryside or rural living. Personally when you say national parks and and wilderness my mind leaps to open skys, stars, weather, amazing vistas, fascinating environments, plants and wildlife rather than free range goosebumps and genitalia, but each to their own, eh!

About limiting naturism to certain places or providing warning to people e.g. of planned naturist events or walks - Its interesting how places like national parks and indeed most shared public spaces work to meet the different and sometimes competing interests of different groups. Eg - there are often places where its permissible for dogs to be off leash, but it tends not to be exactly the same as the bridleways. Equally, the downhill mountain biking trails tend to be clearly marked and separated from walking and other trails because its in no ones interests to risk accidents to either bikers or hikers. Or the spaces where its acceptable to use drones are limited to allow others to use areas without their noise or invasion of privacy.

In other words, to maximize who can use and access the space, and to fully allow their freedom and enjoyment of it we tend to set some rules. And often these are only maintained by peoples goodwill and voluntary adherence to them, or by social convention but that does not mean they lack value in helping our society balance the needs of different groups.

I don't quite see how expecting people to consider others and how we share space, or to in certain circumstances adhere to socially acceptable behaviors or agreed restrictions equates to fascism or confinement.

Why anyone would be annoyed or not want to see a naked body is beyond me. It's just another person without clothes on, nothing major.

I don't quite see how expecting people to consider others and how we share space, or to in certain circumstances adhere to socially acceptable behaviors or agreed restrictions equates to fascism or confinement.

Or as that poster put it, 'concentrated camps'. FFS.

@ScarMatty

Why anyone would be annoyed or not want to see a naked body is beyond me. It's just another person without clothes on, nothing major.

I think context and location is everything.

I'm far from a prude or a snowflake. I've been naked on nudist beaches and obviously been happy with other people being naked.

But seeing naked people where I have no choice is very different. It's people foisting their choices on others with no consideration which is the issue. And when the majority of people wouldn't be happy with it then it's an issue. That's even without considering those doing it for kicks. Which I think the majority of people who did it in unofficial lcoations are doing it for.

What I don't understand is though how they manage the chub rub.....all the ones I see in the woods seem fairly overweight.

@ScarMatty

Why anyone would be annoyed or not want to see a naked body is beyond me. It's just another person without clothes on, nothing major.

Oh fgs- read the thread. Do you not understand the concept of context? Social conventions.

The answer to your question has been given - at length.

ffs, here we go again.

Thread on FWR about male behaviour. Loads of women say it makes them feel uncomfortable. A couple of posters chime in with the predictable "it doesn't bother me so therefore the rest of you should just suck it up".