Meeting naturists when hill walking - would you be worried?

[JGACC]

Hi all, I'm interested to gather women's thoughts on this. I read a Facebook post by Macclesfield police this morning asking people to report if they see a male naturist in the Peak District (screenshot attached) as there has been a lot of reports over the last few weeks. I was really surprised that the vast majority of the comments are saying it's legal (which yes it is) and to leave him alone. As a young female who often walks in the Peaks on my own my first thought was...I'd be worried and extremely uncomfortable if I came across him and would probably hide behind a tree or rock and try to call someone. Am I paranoid or is this actually fine and something I should take as lightly as the majority of the (mostly, but not all male) commenting public seem to?

I'll admit I was surprised to learn that it is entirely legal to wander round anywhere nude. It does seem a lot of naturists have no sexual intent and are more interested in being at one with nature. The man in question doesn't seem to have been reported as carrying out threatening behaviour and is probably harmless but it still makes me worried and I don't know if I'm ridiculous or not. (I would rather be ridiculous than not in this case!)

A balance needs to be struck between the rights and freedoms of the naturist to practise his or her way of life and protecting the sensitivities of the wider public. As it stands I think the law in England and Wales has that balance about right.
So any person who chooses to simply go about their normal business without clothes may do so legally, providing no deliberate attempt to cause alarm or distress has occurred, and no police intervention would be required.
Of course if there are any aggravating factors involved or any sexual motivation then an offence would be deemed to have taken place and immediate police contact should be made.

There is no 'right' to be naked.

In public, I mean.

Hear hear!

Also, in general, if you are a woman and you ever come across a male who is nude in public and you feel uncomfortable, then call the police. It's not solely about how he feels, but also about how you feel. Believe it or not, women's wants/wishes/rights matter just as much as men's.

According to the law of the land for England and Wales there is.

“Naturists have a right to freedom of expression which only engages criminal law if they commit sexual offences or use disorderly behaviour that they intend to or are aware may be disorderly within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress.”

See the College of Policing guidelines for further explanation:
library.college.police.uk/docs/nudity.pdf

I'd question the sanity of anyone who was hillwalking naked in the U.K. in November, for sure.

Well, the line between exhibitionism/indecent exposure and 'right to freedom of expression' seems to be fairly thin.

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress

That is: any woman encountering a naked male where she would not expect to encounter a naked male is highly likely to be cause alarm or distress.

But I hear that you just dgaf.

You have taken out of context and isolated one line from the text. The guidelines need to be read in full and understood to comprehend both the letter and the spirit of the law. Note in particular this paragraph:

“In the absence of any sexual context and in relation to nudity where the person has no intention to cause alarm or distress it will normally be appropriate to take no action unless members of the public were actually caused harassment, alarm or distress (as opposed to considering the likelihood of this).”

Therefore it is not sufficient to consider the likelihood of causing harassment, alarm or distress, but that there was clear intent on behalf of the naturist.

As for my own opinion on the matter, that is of course irrelevant, I am merely attempting to clarify the law as it stands.

I think it's wishful thinking to say you didn't intend to cause offence - therefore no offence is caused.
Because the further clause clearly states
unless members of the public were actually caused harassment, alarm or distress
So, the Police are likely (one would hope) to turn up and investigate a report of public nudity causing alarm or distress, move the perpetrator on but it's an offence unlikely to result in arrest or trial.
I know several people who are naturists. None of them have any interest in pursuing their hobby in a way that would cause offence or distress. It just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of naturism to behave in a way that drifts towards exhibitionism.

unless members of the public were actually caused harassment, alarm or distress

That very clearly says that if members of the public were caused alarm or distress then there is an issue. Thankfully, the law recognises that women's feelings matter just as much as men's.

Your desire to get your penis out in public doesn't override a woman's desire not to see it. Whatever the 'intent'.

I really dislike the police facebook post. The tone of it is basically implying that this is all fine, and just a bit of fun. If I were walking alone in a remote area and a naked man approached me with his genitals waving, I would be alarmed and distressed. But apparently, it's all a bit of fun.

Wafting your dick around in front of non-consenting women is predatory. Even if you have convinced yourself that you are just "expressing yourself".

There’s some nice woods near me where I have encountered a group of naked men walking. I wasn’t expecting it and was really shocked. I was on my own, nobody else about and was quite scared. So much so that as I sped round the corner and saw two clothed men I went up to them and told them what was happening and stayed with them for a bit.

i got home and googled and apparently this location is becoming known for being an unofficial, non sanctioned nudist spot. Same group of men repeatedly apparently. I do agree that it’s attention seeking exhibitionists who get a kick out of upsetting women.

makes me cross that I don’t feel I can go there anymore.

And I’ve read that police guidance and I fail to understand if a man “flashes” me it’s an offence and he’s arrested but if a man appears fully naked it’s not really an offence even if I’m upset and nobody has ever been successfully prosecuted. 🤷‍♀️

Doha, I would report this. It's not on that you are scared to go walking because some group of men are intent on walking about nude. Take it to the local police, councillors, newspapers and MP.

The police are aware and apparently have been called before and come but the men have always disappeared by the time they arrive. It’s made the local papers as well. In the unlikely circumstances that I return and see them again next time I will ring the police. But phone reception is also not good so might not be able to.

I wonder if they are affiliated with a local naturist organisation?

If they are just normal common or garden naturists who enjoy being naked outdoors then I'm sure they'd be horrified to hear they'd upset or scared someone. And if they knew they were causing alarm and distress they'd no doubt desist, as to continue would be both immoral and potentially illegal.

If you've been made aware that you are making women uncomfortable, yet continue to justify the 'right' to expose yourself, it's not about being naked, it's about asserting dominance and the primacy of your desire over the consent of women.

And it seems like the local council are giving it the green light. people not giving a shit about women again, on one hand saying it’s legal and can go ahead but in the next breath saying if you’re distressed call the police.

council’s communities chief Mick Allen said: “Naturism in appropriate circumstances is legal, and we are not therefore in a position to ban naturists from Sherwood Forest.

“We would, however, encourage anyone who feels harassed, alarmed or distressed by the actions of any other users of the forest to report the matter to the police immediately.

I think that actually responds quite clearly to the law, though. Which seems to be partially dependent on the response of other people. Which is to say, if you report that you are alarmed and distressed then the police may be able to take action; they may not be able to do so without reports. (IANAL)

And according to the article when a naked man was confronted, his female clothed companion stripped off in front of the complainers. So obviously not horrified to hear they’d upset someone, quite the opposite in fact.

Yes, that sounds like exhibitionism and deliberately trying to antagonise, upset people.

What we often see is any women who voice discomfort, alarm, or distress, are called 'prudes' or 'pearl clutchers' etc.

People who have been told they are causing upset/alarm/distress but continue to exhibit anti social behaviour like this often respond with adhom attacks in an attempt to divert attention from the fact they are involving unwilling participants in their public display of nudity.

That is exhibitionism - a nonconsensual paraphilia.

I'm not comfortable with any adult exposing themselves in public regardless of what they say their reasons are.

Just out of curiosity how many female naturists like to hill walk where they might run into members of the public?

because it always seems to be dudes walking about with their saggy balls flapping in the wind in these stories…