Meeting naturists when hill walking - would you be worried?

[JGACC]

Hi all, I'm interested to gather women's thoughts on this. I read a Facebook post by Macclesfield police this morning asking people to report if they see a male naturist in the Peak District (screenshot attached) as there has been a lot of reports over the last few weeks. I was really surprised that the vast majority of the comments are saying it's legal (which yes it is) and to leave him alone. As a young female who often walks in the Peaks on my own my first thought was...I'd be worried and extremely uncomfortable if I came across him and would probably hide behind a tree or rock and try to call someone. Am I paranoid or is this actually fine and something I should take as lightly as the majority of the (mostly, but not all male) commenting public seem to?

I'll admit I was surprised to learn that it is entirely legal to wander round anywhere nude. It does seem a lot of naturists have no sexual intent and are more interested in being at one with nature. The man in question doesn't seem to have been reported as carrying out threatening behaviour and is probably harmless but it still makes me worried and I don't know if I'm ridiculous or not. (I would rather be ridiculous than not in this case!)

@littlbrowndog

Why ?

I bet it would feel really liberating

@LizzieMacQueen it wasn't a nice experience. I yelled at him and he went out laughing and I rang Curry's and they were shit. Going on about he was a good bloke etc. So I kept at it, going up the chain of command until it was discovered that he'd done it before. They told me they would let him go but I never actually knew if they did.

@RoseTintedAtuin I'd much rather encounter a naked man on the high street with other people around than on an isolated path. It's often impossible to avoid other people on paths in the actual countryside with rough terrain and woods and hills. It's not like the hills in a park where it's just grass. Like where the Teletubbies live.

it wasn't a nice experience. I yelled at him and he went out laughing and I rang Curry's and they were shit. Going on about he was a good bloke etc. So I kept at it, going up the chain of command until it was discovered that he'd done it before. They told me they would let him go but I never actually knew if they did

I would have reported this to the police.

@Goosefoot

Actually, thinking about it - there are a lot of people who seem to struggle with the idea that it is ok to have a set of cultural practices around public clothing that aren't identical to other places.

It's ok that in the Amazon jungle, the cultural norm is no clothing for the tribes that live there, it makes sense based on their environment and is not sexual. It's ok that in some hot places, no one wears a top. Its ok that in some places people wear hats or head coverings in public, and in others you don't. It's ok that in some places skirts need to be longer, and in others they don't, or that shorts are considered only private casual wear and you wear trousers out in public. (none of this means clothing can't be used in an oppressive way ever, but these differences don't imply that.)

In most places, if you transgress beyond what is considered socially appropriate, either by accident or design, it creates a certain amount of discomfort in others. It's the social contract that sets the expectation. People who transgress it do so generally for two reasons - they are ignorant or have made a social error, or they are trying to push some kind of envelope.

But a heck of a lot of westerners take the view that because the body is not innately "bad" that there should be no social norms about dress. Which just seems a little immature to me.

That's an excellent assessment.

it wasn't a nice experience. I yelled at him and he went out laughing and I rang Curry's and they were shit. Going on about he was a good bloke etc. So I kept at it, going up the chain of command until it was discovered that he'd done it before. They told me they would let him go but I never actually knew if they did.

@ScarsdaleSurprise The initial incident was awful, but that brush-off from Curry's was apalling!

I agree with PP - as I said upthread, having encountered this on a couple of occasions, I personally didn't feel threatened (was with a mixed party both times) but found it weird and odd. It is 100% about pushing boundaries, and totally different from getting your kit off on a naturist beach with other naturists. These men are only doing it because they know that it makes people feel uncomfortable.

(As an aside, the last time I saw a naked cyclist demo in my town I was very struck by the fact that there were only 2 women and about a dozen or so men. I know the point is to underline how vulnerable cyclists are to vehicle traffic - I cycle myself - but I was left with the distinct impression that the blokes were rather enjoying it for all the wrong reasons, and the women, all 2 of them, functioned as their useful idiots to give a figleaf of respectability).

The Police were also useless. I've reported things to the police twice in my life now and both times they just gave me a metaphorical pat on the arm and took it no further. This incident was the second and far less serious one which is why I pursued it myself with Curry's.

but I was left with the distinct impression that the blokes were rather enjoying it for all the wrong reasons, and the women, all 2 of them, functioned as their useful idiots to give a figleaf of respectability).

In my experience, women who do this sort of thing are often also keen on the attention.

@testing987654321

I wouldn't feel any less safe if I was walking in an isolated area and saw a naked man compared to a fully dressed one.

I'd be interested to know how many women feel safe walking alone in isolated areas at all.

I feel safer walking and jogging in the countryside than I do in the city. As Zaphodsotherhead said anyone planning attacking anyone might have to devote a very long time to hanging about. I tend to go to very open areas rather than narrow tracks however so that may contribute to my feeling at ease.

I can see what pp are saying about power play of the kind of a man who walks naked anywhere other than naturist zones in the UK.

I do sometimes wish we had a more relaxed, “healthy” attitude to nakedness in our culture, maybe it would help us all to see the great variety of normal and be more comfortable with ourselves.

I wonder how Transgenderism would fair if we were habitually naked? Would it even have developed at all?

I enjoyed Sgt Snowden's tweet, but it's not really funny. Whatever the man's motivation, he is either doing it with bad intent, or else he's selfishly unconcerned about whether he's liable to upset other people. At best, it's antisocial behaviour.

I remember seeing the Naked Rambler chap one time in the Borders , and being a bit because a naked man with boots and a rucksack, on a freezing cold rainy day, outside Tescos, in a wee ex mining town is a bit unexpected, and hardly the romantic image of him as a free rebel striding the hills that was being portrayed

And lots of my friends were very much 'why is he being arrested? its only the human body? Hes not doing any harm'

Except in this situation Occam's Razor applies, though sadly not literally - eg the simplest explanation is better.

What are the chances this naked man walking towards me in an unexpected place is a brave soul, apparently like the Naked Rambler, making a stance against our hidebound and repressed society and its fear of nudity?
And whats the chance that its just another middle aged male who gets his jollies by exposing himself to people in non consensual situations?

I suspect more people have experienced the latter than the former. Somehow its very hard to tell the difference when you are unwittingly and unwillingly dragged in and made part of someone else's political statement or exhibitionist fetish.

And these days of course I am usually accompanied by my preteen children.
What exactly am I going to teach them about how to react when the unexpectedly see a man exposing himself in a public place, especially if they are alone?

Should I encourage them to think hes just a harmless nudist and engage him in conversation about the philosophy apparently underlying his groundbreaking freedom from sartorial convention?

Or should I let them know in no uncertain terms this is not a situation for where they should suppress their discomfort with the situation, they should feel free to act on instinct, run, make a fuss, scream and attract attention, find another adult who could help them as statistically the person is likely to be a threat, and has already unwillingly involved them in their exhibitionism.

Again, the answer is pretty simple!

It's the context. You don't need to be a feminist (I'm not) or even female to question this behaviour (my husband for example had no sympathy whatsoever for The Naked Rambler)

This is an aside, but people who proudly announce they do not support equality for the sexes utterly confound me

Naked naturists are more a danger to themselves than anyone else by being naked, they are prone to dying of injury or exposure to weather.
It being a man going solo just underlines how stupidly reckless he is. Besides a well aimed pebble or jab with a stick would be more than enough to send him away if he got too friendly. It’s not like a naked man is going to have a weapon hidden on his person.

Stephen Gough (the Naked Rambler) is living quietly with clothes on at the moment
but he'll be back to his usual self soon
strange man
but harmless

as statistically the person is likely to be a threat,

Which statistics would those be? Do you have a link that says naturists are statistically more of a threat than non naturists?

The thing that really turned me off about that naked rambler guy was that in the TV programme that they did about him there was a scene where he was eating and he chewed with his mouth open and the noise was awful.

I watched the show hoping to understand/empathise with him but that was a bridge too far for me.

Can't stand the bugger now.

And whats the chance that its just another middle aged male who gets his jollies by exposing himself to people in non consensual situations? hmm. I suspect more people have experienced the latter than the former. Somehow its very hard to tell the difference when you are unwittingly and unwillingly dragged in and made part of someone else's political statement or exhibitionist fetish.

If you replace male with female it would be an equally apt description of Slut Walk.

The Naked Bike ride through London ruined my day once.
so much flaccid tackle flapping around - yeuch

It’s not like a naked man is going to have a weapon hidden on his person.

A penis is a weapon, in the eyes of many women though. Granted it wouldn't be hidden in this scenario.

Not saying naturists are perverts or rapists, but if I came across a naked man when it's not the norm to see them, I'd have no idea if he was a naturist, mentally unwell, a predator...

I wouldn't be worried per se but if with my kids - it would potentially really freak out my DD.
I am older now though - in my twenties in Munich in the English Garden I remember the nudist bit being a bit of an eye-opener.
It was reported 4 years ago that Stephen Gough was looking after his Mum who had dementia so fair play to him for getting his priorities right.

I'd probably lose my shit at him tbh and end up in some sort of bother myself. I just don't have the tolerance for that kind of 'you're now an unconsenting prop in my fetish world' bollocks. Especially not when I have my children with me.

PPs who say they are untroubled by flashers.....you do know that flashing isn't all they're doing, right? You don't want to be wanked at or ejaculated on when you're walking along minding your own business.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Naked naturists are more a danger to themselves than anyone else by being naked, they are prone to dying of injury or exposure to weather. It being a man going solo just underlines how stupidly reckless he is. Besides a well aimed pebble or jab with a stick would be more than enough to send him away if he got too friendly. It’s not like a naked man is going to have a weapon hidden on his person.

This comment makes it totally clear that you are a man. A naked man can overpower and rape a clothed woman. Do you want to know how I know that? Have a guess...

I do sometimes wish we had a more relaxed, “healthy” attitude to nakedness in our culture, maybe it would help us all to see the great variety of normal and be more comfortable with ourselves.

I don't disagree with this necessarily, but even if we did, I think it would still be limited in context. There are lots of places where you may have more nudity on the beach, or baths or sauna, or even people might be relaxed about it at home. But the same cultures may be even less willing to accept some of the clothes I see in my town - people jogging with no shirts (men) or in a bra (women) for example.Or wearing sweats when they aren't working out.

Places where people wear very little seem to be often related to the climate more than anything else, and they still have social norms around behaviour even if you are naked.

I do find it interesting in that where I live, over the past generation or so, say since when my mother was growing up, there has been progressively less comfort with naked bodies even in specific same sex environments like pool change rooms. People go to a lot of effort to cover themselves while changing and individual cubicles have become the norm in showers and such too. I tend to think this is a lot more reflective of some kind of increasing discomfort with bodies than whether we want to meet people naked on bikes in town, or naked walking on remote hiking trails.

This comment makes it totally clear that you are a man. A naked man can overpower and rape a clothed woman. Do you want to know how I know that? Have a guess...

It's usually best not to guess like this, I can tell you that lots of women have been accused of being men here when they have an opinion someone else doesn't like. Somehow people fail to realise that women can have a variety of different ideas...

When I was a school girl I saw a flasher on the way home.
A few weeks later he followed me and climbed the extension roof and tried to break into my sisters bedroom.
They are not all harmless and I would be wary of a lone naked man.

Except of course Slut Walks occur as an organized form of political protest with stewards and registration of the march - it tends not to be a spontaneous lone woman making a point about nudity and forcing all around her to accept her exhibitionist choices

so Im afraid you have failed to pull that 'well, women do it too and just as bad' rabbit out of the hat.

I have no idea whether naturists (eg those who practice naturism in a socially acceptable fashion, within private grounds or naturist venues and beaches) are a greater threat than non naturists.

What I am certain is that a someone presenting themselves nude to unconsenting strangers out of these socially acceptable situations is an act of boundary breaking and dominance, no matter what their motivations
I am also certain that there is a recognized offender pattern in some men of flashing, (often beginning in the teenage years) then escalating to contact sexual offenses and rape.