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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Excellent summary of Tavistock issues

8 replies

TheKrakening3 · 21/08/2020 10:25

www.spiked-online.com/2020/08/21/is-the-tavistock-gender-clinic-failing-children/

This is a clear, concise, unemotive summary of the Tavistock train wreck.

OP posts:
ValancyRedfern · 21/08/2020 10:45

Great article

NewAndImprovedNorks · 21/08/2020 10:54

‘The fear of [being accused of] transphobia has basically just immobilised people’s capacity to think critically’.

Brilliant article and this, for me, is the nub of it. There seems to be a desire to shut down critical thinking, not just on this issue, but in all areas of debate.

needaMNnamegenerator · 21/08/2020 11:25

I'm glad Susan Evans is bringing up sexual function. We often hear that children who transition will be infertile but I think it's less well known or discussed that they run the risk of losing some - or even all - sexual function as an adult.

I think the idea of taking away a young person's ability to have a sex life as an adult might be met with more horror by the general population than infertility as not everyone empathises with the desire to have children or understands how tough it is for those how can't have kids who want them. And many have overconfidence in other "solutions" - IVF / adoption etc. But most people can understand that taking away a child's ability to have a sex life as an adult is a horrific thing to do to another person.

This is why part of Susan’s case against the Tavistock rests on arguing that it is impossible to get informed consent (known as Gillick competency) from children under 16 to take part in such treatment. As she tells me:

‘A child can’t give away or give consent to something which will affect their adult life, of which they have no conceptual understanding. If you try to explain to an 11-year-old that the pills they want might possibly make it difficult to have an orgasm later in life or be able to have children, they’re quite likely to say “yuk, don’t want one anyway, give me the tablets”, because they’re kids – they can’t imagine what it’s like to have adult desires.’

OldCrone · 21/08/2020 11:44

I read that article not expecting to learn anything new. But I was not previously aware about what it says about GIDS founder, Domenico Di Ceglie.

Hitherto, gender dysphoria had been understood in terms of paraphilia, as an abnormal sexual desire. But at a 1996 conference (quickly turned into a collection of essays entitled A Stranger In My Own Body, (1996)), Di Ceglie proposed a different framework for understanding young people’s gender issues. Coining the phrase ‘atypical gender-identity organisation’, Di Ceglie argued that, while in some cases gender trouble in children can manifest itself as a disorder, it can also be ‘a process analogous to the development of a vocation, such as an early calling to the priesthood or an enduring and compulsive ambition to pursue particular professional roles’. In other words, the desire to change gender was no longer necessarily a psychological problem, let alone a product of abnormal sexual desire; it was a legitimate individual aspiration. Indeed, it was a journey, a process of development, to be facilitated, rather than a condition to be treated.

And John Money wrote the foreword to Di Ceglie's book.

I am starting to see why we are where we are.

MsWonderful · 21/08/2020 12:34

John Money 😱 this subject appears dodgy as fuck at first glance, then when you delve into it more it’s got so many dodgy layers to it it’s just mind-blowing. Children need to be protected from these people.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/08/2020 12:52

Who is John Money?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/08/2020 12:54

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Who is John Money?
Oh. I just googled and wish I hadn't

During subsequent appointments with Reimer and Reimer's twin brother Brian, Money forced the two to rehearse sexual acts, with David playing the bottom role as his brother "[pressed] his crotch against" David's buttocks. Money also forced the two children to strip for "genital inspections", occasionally taking photos. Money justified these acts by claiming that "childhood 'sexual rehearsal play'" was important for a "healthy adult gender identity".[4]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

MindTheMinotaur · 21/08/2020 12:55

For anyone else who went, John Money? Failed gender experiment on children that resulted in two suicides.

www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dr_money_prog_summary.shtml

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