Sick of intimidating behaviour

[Rosegoldlilly1]

Today me and my DS went to a busy cafe to enjoy a drink, most of the people in there were women and the people serving were mostly young women. As soon as I walking in the door I could feel this man's eyes staring. He was sitting alone indoors with sunglasses on, I'd say mid to late 30s. Just with a bottle of free tap water. We got put onto the table next to him. While there I could see he was just staring at all the young waitresses playing with his car keys. Didn't go on his phone once. Literally so obviously watching them go backwards and forwards. He would turn his head and stare at me and my son.

I am sick and fed up of this behaviour. Why does he think this is OK? I know he can but why do these types of men have this behaviour? It's not just here. Ever since the age of 14 I've been cat called, been stared at by older men, men muttering in groups while walking past and speaking about me eg cor look at that, I would. Obviously I know it's not just me it's happened to so many other women.
I'm so angry that society is like this and let's this happen. Why do they not respect women to not do this. Why do they think this is OK?

Yeah, I've had thirty years of men staring at my boobs. A certain kind of sleazy man. It's gross. Men are gross.*

*NAMALT

I was on a train once with my DD and a guy got on and sat opposite us. He was early twenties and very good looking. He clapped eyes on then 16 year old DD and the most horrible look came across his face. I've never seen a predatory look like it. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. He was staring without even blinking, like she was a piece of meat he was going to eat. I got up and stood right in front of her with my back to him until he got off a couple of stops later.

It was easily the most intimidating and scary situation I've ever found myself in. I knew in my bones this guy was dangerous, a real predator and it scared me. I can still feel the fear when I remember him.

longpause that's awful. Glad you stood in front of your daughter. Did he turn away when you did?
Some men also love it when they can see when they are intimidating you or making you uncomfortable. I just cannot comprehend this. Why would you like doing it.

My godfather is a singer in a pub band and as a treat I was often brought out to see them play during summer holidays. One evening we are leaving after the gig, my mother had me by the hand and we had to walk past a bar to get to the exit. About 8 men sitting in a line, all nursing pints and as we passed one leaned down to me and said in a whisper "I can smell your pu$$y from here". I was about 7 years old and didn't know what that word meant, my mother hauled me out of the bar and I felt such shame for ruining the evening for her, but I couldn't understand what I had done wrong.

I am 40 years old and still remember that evening, that feeling of shame in the pit of my stomach. As a teen and into my 20's in college I worked in a bar part time and this same behaviour still went on, managers and male staff would just look the other way, they didn't speak up as they did not want to annoy customers (that were verbally and sometimes physically harassing) female staff. It took me a long time to realise that I had under estimated the hatred many men have for women, how we are game for their amusement. Even now in my 40's it is still ongoing, I was stood outside a shop waiting for a friend and a two men passed by and one of them asked "How much I charge by the hour" and walked off laughing. I am so sick of this shit.

I don't just blame the men that carry on like this, I blame the "good" men who sit back and say and do nothing when they witness it, deep down they must feel the same way. You cannot claim to be decent or NAMALT and not act on this stuff.

TLDR: I too am tired of this.

@Rosegoldlilly1

longpause that's awful. Glad you stood in front of your daughter. Did he turn away when you did? Some men also love it when they can see when they are intimidating you or making you uncomfortable. I just cannot comprehend this. Why would you like doing it.

I had my back to him so couldn’t see him.

Here’s the thing though, he wasn’t doing it to be intimidating or make us uncomfortable, he was looking at her like she was something he wanted whether she agreed or not. That’s what made it so very scary. He had only one thing on his mind and I doubt he even noticed me until I stood up.

@dontbeme that made me so sad and angry to read! You shouldn't feel shame but I understand why you did. It's disgusting really. And yes I don't know why the good men don't stick up for this behaviour. Maybe they have been conditioned to turn a blind eye to stay out of trouble.

@longpausenoreply that's so unnerving. There really are so horrible people in this world.

It just makes me so sad because I feel like nothing will ever change. Women will always been seen as the lesser sex. Physically weaker and easier to target. Its so deeply ingrained into society

@LongPauseNoReply

I was on a train once with my DD and a guy got on and sat opposite us. He was early twenties and very good looking. He clapped eyes on then 16 year old DD and the most horrible look came across his face. I've never seen a predatory look like it. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. He was staring without even blinking, like she was a piece of meat he was going to eat. I got up and stood right in front of her with my back to him until he got off a couple of stops later.

It was easily the most intimidating and scary situation I've ever found myself in. I knew in my bones this guy was dangerous, a real predator and it scared me. I can still feel the fear when I remember him.

That actually made me feel nauseous LongPause

Dontbeme I have a story from when I was young, not going to repeat it here but I know exactly what you mean about remembering the shame.

I was a waitress once (and I mean once) in a kind of bar type place. I was fired; a man groped my bum and I told him off for it, that is why I was fired. I could go on and on... and on but that one story will suffice for now.

It pisses me off that nearly every woman has several stories like these.

I have started to be honest about this kind of stuff with my DD7.

I saw a man really staring, head turning & gawping at a young girls bottom not long ago, I was in the car and said out loud "disgusting pervert"

DD asked me what I was referring to, so I explained what he was doing and I said "He's probably got a wife that is totally unaware of how much of a pig he is"

This led on to me expaining what cat calling is.

DD was horrified.

She has seen me tell a group of builders near us (new builds going up) that is was really big of them to make the woman feel uncomfortable that they just all stopped working for, so they could stare at her.

I drop DD to school at approx 08.30 each day, there is a white van with 2 men in every day that pass us in the opposite direction, they slow right down every bloody time to gawp, laugh and then stare in the wing mirror at a girl going to school (about 14/15)

I dont know where they work, I guess its on another site if new builds at the bottom.
That girl must dread the walk to school

Im not sure if I am telling DD7 too much too soon?

I have been single since she was born, I am trying to be a good role model, and help her wise up to this shit.

Souled, I support you trying to educate her but I would maybe dial it back in her presence a little until she is older... I had very confrontational parents in public and I hated it and now fear confrontation at every turn...

I do think it's important to have the conversation with daughters but I do wonder if 7 is a bit young. I remember my grandma warning me about this stuff when I was probably about 12 or 13. She told me a story about how when she was a school girl a man sat down next to her on the bus and got his penis out and she said to him "if that's all you've got then I suggest you put it away".

That incident would have happened in 1929. Nearly 100 years later and women are still putting up with the same bellends (literally).

Thank you both, I will & must think before I speak, I am a bit hot headed.

I do struggle with what's right & wrong in a sense. I tell her to put longer shorts on when we go out, and keep certain shorts for 'indoors'

Its sad that I feel I need to watch what she is wearing.

When I say she was horrified about the bottom staring & cat calling, she shook her head in a dissaproving way, and sort of eye rolled as if to say 'typical' of them.

I’m honestly not getting at you. I hate that this is an issue. I just always felt such unspoken danger in those situations and was scared it would turn really ugly. But teaching assertiveness and self defence when she is older will be great. It’s also about learning to read a situation. Sometimes staying silent and just getting out of the way is the safest option, sadly.

No, I agree with you. I think because its been DD & I, only since day 1, she has had 100% of my attention & conversation.

We have no family near so she doesn't spend time with anyone else. (Apart from School & holiday club)

Her teachers have always said, she is very 'grown up' for want of a better word, but I have to remind myself, she is just 7, and not older and I do overshare.

Easily done! Good luck.

Yes, I'm beyond fed up with men thinking their manliness is a huge part of their identity, and part of being manly means dominating women. Especially through sex.

I sincerely think men's sex obsession would disappear if they believed a weak sex drive was a sign of high testosterone.

I’m plain and in my 40s. Last week I was standing on the street waiting for a friend when a man in a car pulled over, said to me, “Can I ask you a question? Why is my dick so hard?” and proceeded to masturbate at me. I told him he was a disgusting creep and walked away. I should have got his registration number and reported it but, really, what’s the point?