Impartial Civil Service? Hardly.

[Aesopfable]

It seems there is a political organisation within the civil service that acts in an autocratic way and has no democratic accountability. Yes it is trans but it should worry everyone.

twitter.com/OnlyObjectivity/status/1150371014888566784

I'm a civil servant and I've never heard of this? Nothing has come through on our internal emails or intranet.

I remember the days when the NFU was considered to have a red carpet rolled out for them by the Min of Ag, fisheries and food.

Now it isn't the farmers, and it is all departments.

Very interesting.

It's a staff network. It doesn't have influence over govt policy (in any more sinister way than anyone's "identity" influences their work as a civil servant). U less you're saying trans people shouldn't be employed in govt?

I am gender critical and would be considered a massive TERF by many. This rings zero alarm bells to me

@Griefmonster

It's a staff network. It doesn't have influence over govt policy (in any more sinister way than anyone's "identity" influences their work as a civil servant). U less you're saying trans people shouldn't be employed in govt?

I am gender critical and would be considered a massive TERF by many. This rings zero alarm bells to me

A staff network for an organisation that must remain impartial, yet holds a very partisan position and seeks to influence government departments over a matter that is currently under consideration by government. It is not simply a support network!

@Griefmonster

It's a staff network. It doesn't have influence over govt policy (in any more sinister way than anyone's "identity" influences their work as a civil servant). U less you're saying trans people shouldn't be employed in govt?

I am gender critical and would be considered a massive TERF by many. This rings zero alarm bells to me

Aye, this

Meh, it says they support people. That's ok, everyone should be supported, and not discriminated against. Again, I'm a massive terf. But I'm not transphobic, if a minority exists, they should be treated equally, and it's ok for them to monitor that.

I would have thought civil servants were a bit old for needing to be directed to Mermaids for support.

They do indeed have influence. One member, a very senior civil servant, got a Stonewall award partly for his decision to remove single sex toilets at some of the Department of Education offices. Staff were not consulted.

I am massively gender critical but this is nothing more than a staff network to support trans and intersex colleagues and I really have no issue with that. Having said that, they do get consulted on for policy changes and have been key in advocating for gender related policies being written and implemented but no more so than other networks do.

The Permanent Secretary for Education - the most senior Civil Servant in that Ministry - is a Senior Stonewall Diversity Champion. A very keen and active one.

There was an article in the Times yesterday about that senior civil servant. Given these men's enthusiasm for sharing toilets with women I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that schools are drowning in advice from similar minded males determined to introduce mixed sex facilities for children and teenagers.

@TheFleegleHasLanded that is a staff network having influence over an element of the workplace. Not on government policies. There is a difference and the twitter thread conflates the two.

That example of mixed sex toilets may well be a troubling example of one staff network making decisions for a whole workforce without proper and wide consultation (particularly for those people with protected characteristics). But there is nothing I can see from that I formation that indicates the network was advising on govt policy on school toilets.

As a tax paying member of the public, it appears to me that we (taxpayers) are funding Stonewall to have frequent access to our most senior members of the civil service, who DO have influence over government and government policies. Stonewall, in case you have forgotten, actively lobbied to remove the single sex exemptions from the EqA2010.
If you had had any contact and correspondence with the GEO, as I and many other posters here have, you would see it is very common that the GEO misinterprets the EqA2010 quite blatantly. I have emails that prove it. Members of that department are also members of a:gender.
The civil servant concerned in the removal of single sex toilets in the DoE was THE most senior civil servant at the Department of Education. If you believe he had no influence over government policy and the implementation of that policy in educational establishments then that makes you very naive. In my opinion.

There is a lot of ‘move along, nothing to see here’ on this thread. Interesting.

@TheFleegleHasLanded

There is a lot of ‘move along, nothing to see here’ on this thread. Interesting.

Indeed.

The taxpayer should not be paying for lobby groups to influence staff. Taxpayer funded services and staff should be impartial. That's the bare minimum the public expects.

Maybe I'm naive or maybe I have experience of the civil service and consider that the vast majority take their responsibilities to be impartial very very seriously. It is absolutely core to the way we govern in this country.

Do you think civil service shouldn't have staff networks at all? Or shouldn't have staff networks for some things? Or lobby groups shouldn't have access to civil service. Or only some lobby groups shouldn't?

From what I have read on that twitter thread and on this thread, there is a fair bit of muddling of narratives. Policy isn't created by one group speaking to one civil servant. Not in my experience anyway. If you k ow differently, then that is fine. I haven't seen evidence of it yet though.

And can we stop with the "interesting" comments on voices that are not immediately outraged at people who are trans inclusionary having jobs.

I don't want lady dicks in my daughter's school toilets or any toilets. But I still think men can dress and act and work as they like (I just don't think it makes them women)

I don’t have a problem with ‘trans-inclusionary ’, but in my experience it means ‘women and girls exclusionary’.
Do you think the women at the DofE minded losing their single sex toilets? Did anyone ask them? The women at the Home Office weren’t thrilled about theirs becoming mixed sex, it was in the papers.
And can’t you just hear a senior civil servant saying to their minister ‘oh we have had ‘gender neutral toilets at the Department for months, nobody has complained’...
If government departments can’t even follow the actual bloody law, then you can see how easily this nonsense spreads beyond government.

Just out of interest, does anyone know of any other civil service staff networks?
Is there perhaps one for staff with diabetes, or another medical condition? Would it be appropriate for that network to influence what food is available in the staff restaurants?
Is there a network for menopausal women that has influence over the temperature in the offices?

The Nolan Principles of Public Life apply to the civil service. Stonewall is a political campaigning group:
Integrity
Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends.

Indeed persistentwoman

The civil service are as good at ignoring those principles as the police are...

@TheFleegleHasLanded - I don't know about diabetes but menopause yes! In my area anyway. And yes they do exactly that! Race equality networks, disability networks, fliexble working networks, mental health and wellbeing, carers...All with a focus on challenging issues and making changes to INTERNAL policies and environment.

Also please note I didn't say that what this group did was good. I specifically said it was a troubling example.

@persistentwoman - are you saying Stonewall are bribing senior civil servants?

Do you know how many campaigning groups get govt funding? Probably any one you can think of in one way or another.

There are many questions to ask about the role of campaign/lobby groups and charities who receive govt funding.

But equating a staff network (which will have self-organised to represent views/experiences of staff) as having control over government policy is just not a fair conclusion to draw from the info presented.

As I said - conflation of different issues here.

So Grief, have any of these staff groups received awards from external lobby groups for their actions in the workplace?

The a:gender definition of transgender:
"including those who have no intention of permanently changing gender"

Your 'Pips' Bunce types then. So people in the civil service have to accept colleagues who just change their gender on a daily/weekly/whatever basis using the mens/womens loo depending on how they felt that morning when they got out of bed?

I see their Workplace and Gender Reassignment Guide is "currently under review."
Probably because it was playing fast and loose with the EqA2010 having been 'Stonewalled'. I'm sure someone has a copy somewhere that we can check...but I bet I'm not wrong.

www.agender.org.uk