Most disingenuous claim by a TRA doctor I’ve seen yet

[NotBadConsidering]

Jack Turban is a child psych fellow. He shot to prominence earlier this year when he has a paper published in Pediatrics that claimed to show transgender adults who had been on puberty blockers as children had better mental health when in fact it actually showed those adults who had been on puberty blockers as children were twice as likely to have been hospitalised for a suicide attempt in the 12 months prior compared to transgender adults who hadn’t been on puberty blockers.

He is claiming, in response to Abigail Shrier, that puberty blockers don’t cause infertility. To prove his point he links a study.

mobile.twitter.com/jack_turban/status/1295560729173475328

The study looks at the use of puberty blockers for precocious puberty. This is a condition where children go through puberty too early, puberty blockers are used, and then always ceased to allow normal puberty to happen. Therefore these children do not end up infertile. This is a completely different condition.

With gender variant children who are given puberty blockers they are NOT stopped, normal puberty is NEVER allowed to happen, normal fertility is NEVER developed because sperm and ova aren’t matured by the process of puberty. Cross sex hormones, given later do not allow this process to happen. Surgery to remove ovaries or testes then makes it permanent.

In the “theoretical” case study of a child continuing on puberty blockers without progressing to cross sex hormones the authors acknowledge the risk of infertility and recommend consideration of egg preservation and counselling.

jme.bmj.com/content/early/2020/07/24/medethics-2019-106012

Puberty suppression would also impair Phoenix’s fertility. Phoenix’s eggs are unlikely to mature without sex hormones.29 While fertility preservation techniques exist (eg, ovarian tissue cryopreservation), these remain experimental, especially for individuals who have not gone through puberty,10 such as Phoenix. Current guidelines recommend the impact of puberty blockers on fertility and fertility preservation options be discussed with patients and families before beginning puberty suppression.

Jack must know this. He can’t not know this. If Jack doesn’t know this he is a very poorly informed self-appointed expert in this field. If Jack does know this and is being disingenuous in his post, I can’t possibly post my opinion on Jack’s integrity because this post took too long to risk deletion.

Why let facts get in the way of doctrine!

it seems Jack got/gets money from these companies.

Follow the money.

Jack Turban, insistent critic of Abigail Shrier’s book on transitioning of young girls, constantly claims puberty blockers are safe. He is paid by a firm that manufactures them.

uncommongroundmedia.com/jack-turban-investigated-americal-medical-association/

i was just looking for that link!

hmmmmmm

Thanks OldCrone that was going to be my follow up. Very interesting.

What strikes me about these people is the arrogance. They think no one could figure things out themselves, look into things, research things, read published papers properly, analyse hidden data. They think if they say something it will just be taken as Gospel.

Gosh, $15,000 dollars is quite a large sum of money for a doctor to receive from a company that manufactures puberty blockers, isn't it? I'm sure there's a very good and clear explanation for why he's trying to attack Abigail Shrier's arguments.

What strikes me about these people is the arrogance. They think no one could figure things out themselves, look into things, research things, read published papers properly, analyse hidden data. They think if they say something it will just be taken as Gospel.

And that sums up the trans ideology.
*
They think if they say something it will just be taken as Gospel.*

And that is what is being legislated. Never mind reality. Bend reality to fit the ideology.

@NotBadConsidering

Thanks OldCrone that was going to be my follow up. Very interesting.

What strikes me about these people is the arrogance. They think no one could figure things out themselves, look into things, research things, read published papers properly, analyse hidden data. They think if they say something it will just be taken as Gospel.

Well, it is by lot of people. That's why we're in this mess.

Gosh, $15,000 dollars is quite a large sum of money for a doctor to receive from a company that manufactures puberty blockers, isn't it?

It is, but surely that is nothing when considered how much will be lost when former patients sue them?

I genuinely don't think it's about the money for these people. I think it's god complex / narcissism /MBP / enjoying all the woke cookies they get. In a "normal" balanced individual surely the known well documented risks would outweigh the unlikely, poorly researched benefits.

Doctors don’t lose money when damaged patients sue them. We all have to have malpractice insurance from a defence organisation, and it’s the insurer who pays out. Or the health trust, if it was an NHS patient.
Sure, the defence subscription cost would go up the next year if a lot of v expensive lawsuits had been lost, but an individual bad doctor wouldn’t suffer more than the other good doctors in his specialty. The only effective penalty is for him to be struck off the medical register and lose his practice rights. Which I hope happens to anyone inflicting sterility, osteoporosis and long term health damage on children.

I have read some of his work. He does not seem to have a balanced approach.

When you say he is a child psych fellow do you mean psychologist (not a medical doctor, no training in the physical body) or a psychiatrist?

What concerns me about his work is how a journal like Pediatrics published his paper, which was a low quality self-selecting questionnaire study that didn’t conclude what it purported to. It’s a similar situation to the American Journal of Psychiatry’s paper that needed a correction published. These journals should know better. It’s another institutional capture.

@Aesopfable

When you say he is a child psych fellow do you mean psychologist (not a medical doctor, no training in the physical body) or a psychiatrist?

He’s an MD, a doctor, training in psychiatry.

Money and medicine are much more closely linked in the states. Because of the NHS it is considered almost unethical to talk about doctors being paid to provide treatments/making money from it. But medicine is very much ‘big business’ in the states - not just big pharma.

Very interesting. An endocrinologist in California has released the consent form to the study that Johanna Olson-Kennedy is doing on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones:

drive.google.com/file/d/1Q-zJCivH-QW7hL25idXT_jITfJZUUm1w/view

If your child starts puberty blockers in the earliest stages of puberty, and then goes on to gender affirming hormones, they will not develop sperm or eggs. This means that they will not be able to have biological children. This is an important aspect of blocking puberty and progressing to hormones that you should understand prior to moving forward with puberty suppression. If your child discontinues the use of blockers, and does not go on gender affirming hormones, they will continue their pubertal development about 6-12 months after stopping the medication, and fertility would be maintained.

The sentence “This an important aspect..” is underlined for emphasis in the original form but I can’t format that on my phone.

Twitter thread:

mobile.twitter.com/BrandonMShow/status/1295924599738245121

What say you Jack?

I genuinely don't think it's about the money for these people. I think it's god complex / narcissism /MBP / enjoying all the woke cookies they get. In a "normal" balanced individual surely the known well documented risks would outweigh the unlikely, poorly researched benefits.

I don't know. I think most of them are just pursuing career (and financial) opportunities and 'expert' status in a relatively new field.

@ArabellaScott

Gosh, $15,000 dollars is quite a large sum of money for a doctor to receive from a company that manufactures puberty blockers, isn't it? I'm sure there's a very good and clear explanation for why he's trying to attack Abigail Shrier's arguments.

I can't see any 'competing interests info' on that paper, shouldn't there be one?

'expert' status in a relatively new field.

The "new field" aspect is important here. It gets someone first mover advantage meaning that if the field explodes in prominence and size, they're well on track for "big fish in a big pond" status. I think this is very attractive indeed to those with a god complex.

If your child starts puberty blockers in the earliest stages of puberty, and then goes on to gender affirming hormones, they will not develop sperm or eggs. This means that they will not be able to have biological children. This is an important aspect of blocking puberty and progressing to hormones that you should understand prior to moving forward with puberty suppression.

I'll never cease to be shocked that this medication is being given to children without any substantial medical evidence to back it up.

Very interesting. An endocrinologist in California has released the consent form to the study that Johanna Olson-Kennedy is doing on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones

It's Michael Laidlaw apparently. It's a shame he's not more active on Twitter.

If your child discontinues the use of blockers, and does not go on gender affirming hormones, they will continue their pubertal development about 6-12 months after stopping the medication, and fertility would be maintained.

This is a big claim. Have they got evidence to back this up if, for example, you went on blockers at 10/11 and stopped at 16/17?

I suspect that "fertility would be maintained" would more accurately be expressed as "fertility will not necessarily be wholly destroyed". The way these doctors are twisting words in this is a scandal.

I mean, I wouldn't mind, but the story of eg Jazz Jennings is beamed out of their home and doctor's surgery into the homes of millions of people. Millions.

Jazz's every utterance about sex, and the doctors' comments about their anatomy and sexual function, isn't exactly a secret. Jazz and Jazz's family rely on the world knowing all about it, for their livelihood.

Don’t follow Jazz. But the last I heard the attempt to construct a ‘neovagina’ out of a hotchpotch of tissues fail. Did they continue to be filmed or has that dropped away to give them a chance to have some space to reflect?