Spectator article worth a read

[highame]

I hope this link works. I don't think there's anything we don't know but it is Polly Carmichael with a bunch others. It is of course very controversial and therefore suggestions that less is researched than could have been.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/do-tv-characters-of-old-transwomen-really-influence-the-gender-of-young-girls-

That’s a good article. I haven’t read the paper it’s based on but it does sound like they’re trying to cover their backs with statements about the very low level of regret of people who have transitioned - they can’t possibly compare people who transitioned in the 70s (who I imagine were all adults and probably a higher proportion of M to F) with the recent huge number of teenage girls. And as GIDS don’t appear to follow up people after treatment how do they know whether they have any regrets?

I agree - cover their backs, and also some tracks. Because there is no mention in the article, and I presume also the study (though have not read it) of the prevalence of gender ideology in schools, or the staggering influence of trans lobbying groups such as Mermaids in our public and private institutions.

I think that low figure of regret comes from VU University Gender Clinic in the Netherlands. I've read a summary of that research at some point. I think most were adult men.

There needs to be a proper qualitative study of why there's been huge rise of girls wanting to transitioning.

Definitely worth a read. On the suggestion that "positive trans role models" in the media is the reason for the astronomic increase in transitioning children:

Caitlyn Jenner was ‘assigned male at birth’. So was Chelsea Manning. So was Laverne Cox, the transwoman star of Orange is the New Black. The television show Transparent, meanwhile, shows Jeffrey Tambor acting the role of Maura, a transwoman who transitions late in life. Jenner is 70. Cox is 48. Tambor is 76.
Are media depictions of male-to-female transition among people of such ages really a significant factor in the decisions of adolescent girls who say they are transgender? Given that the TGD caseload is heavily skewed towards young people who were born female, what do they make of a media culture that so often focuses on older people who were born male?

I was a bit staggered by how restricted the study was and it's a bit frightening that these professionals are too worried about the impact of a real honest study into young girls wanting to transition. I do feel hopeful that they will get their arses into gear especially if we get plenty of court cases

I was unacquainted with Transparent so had a quick google and found this:

www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/why-transparent-should-replace-jeffrey-tambor-a-trans-actress-guest-column-1060269

Productions centred around trans issues often seem to be the graveyard of careers in the media.

I'm surprised the paper didn't mention the programme 'I am Leo' shown on CBBC in 2014. Polly Carmichael was actually in the programme telling young Leo that puberty blockers are just a harmless pause button. That's more likely to have influenced children (particularly girls) than a bunch of older transwomen.

The programme was shown in late 2014, and the huge increase in the number of girls referred to the Tavistock started in 2015. Could be a coincidence, of course.

Graph from this page (I can't find the data on the GIDS site).
www.genderhq.org/trans-children-gender-dysphoria-desistance-gay

@SheWhoMustNotBeHeard

I think that low figure of regret comes from VU University Gender Clinic in the Netherlands. I've read a summary of that research at some point. I think most were adult men.

There needs to be a proper qualitative study of why there's been huge rise of girls wanting to transitioning.

Yes, it’s usually this study that is used as the basis for that trope, and it’s inappropriate because it refers to regret for gonadectomy only. It doesn’t have any bearing whatsoever on how many women or girls in their teens or twenties might regret the fact their voice has been permanently altered, or they now have permanent facial hair, or their vaginas have atrophied, or have had mastectomies. We don’t know how many regret puberty blockers or testosterone because no one has checked.

@nauticant

I was unacquainted with Transparent so had a quick google and found this:

www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/why-transparent-should-replace-jeffrey-tambor-a-trans-actress-guest-column-1060269

Productions centred around trans issues often seem to be the graveyard of careers in the media.

Jeffrey Tambor also harassed/shouted at co-star Jessica Walters in Arrested Development.

Posted this on other thread, but I want James to see it so he might look here:

And James Kirkup’s article is good, but the most important thing of note that James should make a point of - waves to James 👋- is that the Netherlands study quoted with a regret rate of 0.5% refers only to those who underwent gonadectomy*. It does not refer to hormone treatments, mastectomies, voice changes in women, permanent facial hair etc.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/

I know James notes that this means there needs to be more research, but I wish more people would challenge the disingenuous use of this statistic.

Also, surely one of the biggest influences on children is that gender ideology is being taught in schools.

Kids are actually being told exactly why their personality might mean they're transgender.

James Kirkup is always worth a read on gender issues.

Proper link to Netherlands study:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/

Yes, regret only in that very specific cohort.

Two of the links are interesting. Is trans feminine used instead of trans women? It is more apt, possibly. The second link is just a little incongruous.

Breast augmentation for transfeminine patients

and

Impaired semen quality in trans women

Link to the paper discussed in the Spectator article.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2768726