Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this right? Council not including sex

24 replies

theyrenotgood · 12/08/2020 23:17

My local council's adult safeguarding info has a section describing types of abuse, like physical, emotional, and financial, and includes a blurb about discriminatory abuse. No mention of sex. I want to write to them but am unsure if there's a legal requirement to include sex. I understand misogyny is (unfortunately) not a crime but I thought sex discrimination was?
This is what they say:

This includes some forms of harassment, slurs or unfair treatment relating to your:

race
gender and gender identity
age
disability
sexual orientation
religion

OP posts:
CasuallyMasculine · 12/08/2020 23:21

I don’t know if it’s worth it.

In my LA the template for child protection reports has an equality statement at the end of it, in which they state how they provide a service without discriminating on certain grounds (similar list to yours, OP) - but have excluded sex.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve contacted them and they’ve said they’ll look into it and haven’t.

LouiseTrees · 12/08/2020 23:22

Is that not what they are trying to say by gender/gender identity?

stumbledin · 12/08/2020 23:25

They've muddled up gender and gender identity.

In terms of discrimination whether abuse or something else this list is:

age;
disability;
gender reassignment;
marriage and civil partnership;
pregnancy and maternity;
race;
religion or belief;
sex;
sexual orientation.

Get them to google the Equality Act Protected Characteristics.

theyrenotgood · 12/08/2020 23:33

Sex is a separate characteristic from gender/gender identity. Of course, all groups should be protected from discrimination including gender.

I expect I'll have a similar response CasuallyMasculine but still think it's worth me writing. At least I've tried. I just wasn't sure it is a legal requirement. I think it is but I'm not certain.

OP posts:
theyrenotgood · 12/08/2020 23:36

That's brilliant, thanks. I'll refer to that Stumbled.

OP posts:
stumbledin · 12/08/2020 23:40

Very important!!!!

Neither "gender identity" or "gender" are a protected characteristic. Stonewall etc., were / still are campaigning to have sex removed as a protected characteristic and due to their "training" (brain washing) have persuaded some organisation that sex is now gender, and that gender reassignment is now self identity.

This is not true. And if they paid for Stonewall training they should get their money back because it has put them on the wrong side of the law!

Terranean · 12/08/2020 23:44

Mine is even more inclusive and has reduced the 9 pc to 6 as follows:
age;
disability;
faith, religion and belief;
gender, including marriage, pregnancy and maternity;
gender reassignment;
race;
sexual orientation including civil partnership.

They mention sex under gender reassignment to indicate that sex is non-binary and under sexual orientation to indicate same-sex attraction.
It's a real mess and it is worth telling them that you have seen the sh*t!
It will easily hit the fan if they aren't careful. But I would like to know what can we use as a stick when the 'please, can you stop misquoting the law' is not working. Any ideas?

Terranean · 12/08/2020 23:45

7 sorry.

amb885 · 12/08/2020 23:47

get over it.

Coffeeandbeans · 12/08/2020 23:50

Get over what? That they are misquoting they equal opportunity act. Gender And Sex are not the same.

Watermonster · 12/08/2020 23:54

Sex is a protected characteristic not gender. Councils , the NHS etc have a legal 'Equality Duty' to get it right.

There is suggested wording to write to them here:
womansplaceuk.org/sex-is-a-protected-characteristic/

MsWoodentop · 13/08/2020 00:02

I've emailed my local County Council so many times to point out that their list of protected characteristics is incorrect. Shame on you Derbyshire County Council

stumbledin · 13/08/2020 00:25

Maybe if politely contacting authorities pointing out what the law actually is, rather than their made up list, we should report them.

But that would be to the EHRC who sometimes dont seem to know the difference between the actual law and the Stonewall wish list.

Angry
FuriousAndFrustrated · 13/08/2020 06:45

Just checked and my council get it right!

"The Council recognises that all individuals have fundamental human rights and
welcomes the diversity of the community living, working and learning in the
Borough. As a service provider, community leader and major employer the Council is
committed to promoting equality and tackling social exclusion and, as such, will
integrate equality into all activities, having due regard to the need to:

  • Eliminate unlawful discrimination
  • To promote equality of opportunity and
  • To promote good relations between all groups irrespective of their disability,
race, sex, religion or belief, sexual orientation, trans gender status, age or marital status. This list is not exhaustive and there are other forms of discrimination that are unacceptable and will not be tolerated. "

OK, they mention trans gender status, not gender reassignment, but at least they get sex in there Grin

CasuallyMasculine · 13/08/2020 08:00

I think what some people misunderstand is that the protected characteristic doesn’t mean that someone who says they are trans is allowed in law to use facilities for the opposite sex.

Resource packs for schools produced by organisations such as Allsorts claim that schools must allow a boy who says he is a girl to change for sports with the girls, for example.

What the protected characteristic means is that someone cannot be discriminated against because they are undergoing gender reassignment. So you can’t refuse someone a job, for example, just because they are trans.

Same as the protected characteristic of disability means someone can’t be refused a job, for example, just because they are disabled and a woman can’t be paid less than a man because of her she is a woman.

Sorry, that last one was a joke - of course a woman can be paid less because of her sex.

Iamnotacerealkiller · 13/08/2020 08:00

@FuriousAndFrustrated

They missed maternity!!!

FuriousAndFrustrated · 13/08/2020 13:09

[quote Iamnotacerealkiller]@FuriousAndFrustrated

They missed maternity!!![/quote]
I went back to check... it's listed further down Smile

Is this right? Council not including sex
Beamur · 13/08/2020 17:42

Try contacting your local Councillors - or the Councillors who are chairs of the relevant areas and point out that the Equality Act is being misquoted. Councils are obligated to act within the law, to not do so is 'ultra vires'
It may have been Cambridgeshire that was taken to task over this recently.

Shedbuilder · 13/08/2020 18:55

I've twice now made Freedom of Information (FOI) of councils asking for all paperwork relating to the council's decision to change 'sex' to 'gender' on forms. They have to reply to FOI requests and explain, if they can't supply paperwork, why they can't.

I've had two minor successes locally and have had 'sex' reinstated and gender removed. Suggest those of you being fobbed off hit them with an FOI.

The government tells you how to do it here:
www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request

Beamur · 13/08/2020 20:08

Good point. If a polite question gets you nowhere, go for a FOI. There will be a dedicated officer who has to follow the timeline for responses.

theyrenotgood · 13/08/2020 23:17

Will it get taken seriously if it's an anonymous complaint? I feel really gutless but I'm currently not in a position to raise my head above the palprit. We're needing some help from them. I definitely intend to do more once the current family issues are resolved.

I was particularly unsettled because sex is often (but obviously not always) very relevant in the areas of abuse and safeguarding.

OP posts:
Therewillbetroubleahead · 14/08/2020 00:35

@theyrenotgood

Will it get taken seriously if it's an anonymous complaint? I feel really gutless but I'm currently not in a position to raise my head above the palprit. We're needing some help from them. I definitely intend to do more once the current family issues are resolved.

I was particularly unsettled because sex is often (but obviously not always) very relevant in the areas of abuse and safeguarding.

You could set up a new email and self ID as a different person? You might run into difficulties if you want to refer it onto the LGO but who are they to say that your new identity isn’t real for two hours on a Friday morning?
Beamur · 14/08/2020 09:29

It's a sad reflection of the situation that you don't feel able to ask a pretty straightforward question without fear.
Maybe you could just ask if there is a reason for listing gender but not sex as per the Equality Act. Which is a trans-inclusive piece of legislation so it's not as if you need to mangle it to cover that aspect too.
Although as they're not directly quoting the EA and are just listing some types of harassment I'm not entirely sure you have a great case. They could say, quite reasonably, that the list is not exhaustive.
Does the Council correctly list the protected characteristics elsewhere on their website?

ValancyRedfern · 14/08/2020 12:01

My dd's school have erased sex from their protected categories list in both their equality and diversity and their dafeguarding policies. I have emailed about it but they haven't replied, although they are mid Covid so I appreciate I won't be their priority. I am going to write again, possibly to the Chair of Governors rather than the Head. Safe Schools Allia ce have some good template letters which you could adapt for a council.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page