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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Baileys/Women’s Prize for fiction

37 replies

FromTheAllotment · 12/08/2020 19:55

Have you guys seen this?
twitter.com/baileysofficial/status/1293503434340151296?s=21

Dunno if there’s a thread already? But I thought this is very cool! Free books Grin

OP posts:
queenofknives · 14/08/2020 07:29

@EyesOpening

Ugh yeah, just saw a comment saying that it would only be okay if we can definitely verify that they were trans men!

If I'm looking at the right one, doesn't it say the opposite of that?
"Were you able to confirm that all of these were actual women and not trans men? If the former, great! If the latter, or if you could not confirm, that could be problematic."
"Yup, sorry if I was unclear on that! It may very well not be an issue, but I would feel more comfortable knowing research into why these people used a male name was done. If that due diligence happened, awesome!"

Apologies for typo, Weren't not were.
NoSquirrels · 14/08/2020 08:20

@OhNoGroken

Oh I’ve just seen the “no plans to sell them” comments - what a shame!
Yes - I think they’ve missed a trick, personally! Also their advertising is disingenuous as it strongly suggests printed books. Bit naughty.
Cailleach1 · 14/08/2020 08:28

Yes, physical books which spell out 'Reclaim Her Name' would look good. However, I have too much stuff anyway and am delighted to have the 24 books (one wasn't available) on my computer.

drspouse · 14/08/2020 08:43

Lovely news.
Jack is a name used by lots of women called Jacqueline. It's a very very common woman's name.

Siablue · 14/08/2020 09:05

@drspouse

Lovely news. Jack is a name used by lots of women called Jacqueline. It's a very very common woman's name.
Jack Munroe chose to change her name to Jack as it suits her better. It is the name she is called in life and on her books.
drspouse · 14/08/2020 09:43

I know that, but she can't claim "it's a man's name" any more than Sam or Chris is a man's name.

Cailleach1 · 14/08/2020 10:05

I was wondering about the Jack Monroe name change. So much is being made of the adoption of a typical male first name to reject female identity that I wonder if the adoption of a surname of British origin (albeit not very common and with American e addition to make it a bit special) was a conscious rejection of the identity associated with their original surname.

For the record, I know a Jacqueline who is called Jack for short. Knew another who was called Jackie. They are not male.

boltzmannbrains · 14/08/2020 17:59

This is an excellent and rational thread looking at the legitimate criticisms of the well-intentioned scheme, and how women’s agency is removed.

twitter.com/smcoulombeau/status/1293994306898923520?s=21

Obviously comments like “you should only do this if you can confirm they were not transmen” are Hmm but it’s simplistic to claim all the authors were forced to publish under a male name. In some cases that simply wasn’t true, and for at least one of the writers on the list, the name she was published under wasn’t a pen name but the name she went by in every day life, and she has publicly discussed her reasons for rejecting and changing her birth name. For this company to insist on publishing her under her rejected birth name and not under the name she chose to go by every day, is not an act of reclaiming but the opposite.

queenofknives · 14/08/2020 20:17

I thought this was great at first but when I thought more and looked into some of the names, it did start to make me uncomfortable. I tink it's probably best to call women writers by the names they've chosen. We can still share the knowledge that they were women even if they went under a man's name, and we can talk about the reasons why they may have chosen to do this. It's also true that women writers have been able to publish under their own names in many cases but a few chose not to. A bit like now - JKR was advised to use initials but she could have published as Joanne or Jo - maybe she would have been just as successful. It's not as if people ever thought she was a man, as far as I can recall. There is sexism in publishing but lots of women publish under their own names and always have. Although there are definitely cases, like James Tiptree, where you can see why they wanted to use a pseudonym to get into what was very much a boys' club.

So yeah... this is one of those situations where what seems like a great idea at first maybe falls apart a bit when you really take a good look. Although saying that, I don't think it's harmful or wrong. Just a bit misguided. It's raised awareness of women writers who many haven't heard of and they've given some free books away, so can't be all bad!

NoSquirrels · 15/08/2020 08:01

Thanks boltzmannbrains that Twitter thread was really interesting and a bal as need read- I love she says a lot of ‘frothing’ had been undeserved. Interesting stuff!

DidoLamenting · 15/08/2020 08:59

@drspouse

Lovely news. Jack is a name used by lots of women called Jacqueline. It's a very very common woman's name.
Is it? Apart from Jack Munroe I've never come across a Jacqueline who shortened her name to Jack- it's Jackie or Jaquie/ Jacqi.
NoSquirrels · 15/08/2020 09:12

@NoSquirrels

Thanks boltzmannbrains that Twitter thread was really interesting and a bal as need read- I love she says a lot of ‘frothing’ had been undeserved. Interesting stuff!
‘a bal as need read’ = a balanced read Blush
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