Job application not asking for sex, but asking if cis or trans

[JobHuntingPerson]

In the middle of applying for a job online, got to the equality and diversity section, all the usual questions about sexuality, religion ethnicity. I know a lot of people hate answering those questions but I think they can be important for companies to monitor their inclusivity.

Anyway, there was no sex question, it did not ask if I'm male or female. Instead there was a gender identity question, asking if I'm Agender, Cisgender, Trans, Queer, Intersex, Non -binary or prefer another term.

So basically, if or when the company does an equality review they will have no idea how many women they employ, no idea how to monitor or prevent any sexist culture growing in the workplace that makes life harder for female employees- or means we never get employed by them in the first place.

Has anyone else who's job seeking at the moment, or working in HR, seen anything like this. Is it becoming the norm?

I found it quite off-putting and don't know how to answer the question.

Instead there was a gender identity question, asking if I'm Agender, Cisgender, Trans, Queer, Intersex, Non -binary or prefer another term.

This is very bad - 'intersex' is not a gender identity. It's also none of their business. Is there a 'prefer not to say category'?

The 2004 GRA was introduced because of the EU law recognising a right to privacy - specifically so that people don't have to declare their trans status.

Assuming that there isn't a 'prefer not to say' option, this question seems to break the law.

Sorry - I'm being stupid - there is a prefer not to say option.

Just tick that.

However, they are still wrong to put 'intersex' as a gender identity.

I'd just leave it blank if poss. I do not have a gender identity so it's not applicable (which I'd use in other if it demands an answer.)
I'd follow up with an expression of concern at the fact they are not abiding by the Equality Act by not monitoring sex. I'd send it in if I'd done the application or probably forget if hadn't completed it.
But HR really need pulling up on this.

Not sure if I'll continue the application. I already have a job, so don't desperately need this, just looking for something better.

I wouldn't apply.

If they include 'intersex' on a form like this, what other strange policies do they have? Earth is flat?

Companies are obliged by law to monitor the protected characteristics as per the Equality Act. They may choose to monitor additional characteristics, but the EqA ones are the only ones needed.

If this is their monitoring form, I would be concerned that their policies are discriminatory, especially against those of us protected on the basis of sex. And I would certainly think twice before considering them as an employer.

If you are cis gender then you are the sex you were born with.

No, that is not what the term means nor is it what the sexologist who coined the term in 1991 intended to convey.

A person who is "cisgender" by definition embraces the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes associated with their birth sex, performs them happily and does not feel uncomfortable with or disagrees with or rebels against those stereotypes.

That's why so may of us say we do not know a single person who is "cisgender".

There is no collective term for those of us not suffering from "gender dysphoria" (just in case that's what you were seeking to express.)

Gender, even as understood in transgender ideology, is the collective term for the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes any given society construct around each sex and imposes on each member of that society. As society changes, so do these stereotypes. Thus, while human sex has only ever consisted of the male and female sex class since the species evolved millions of years ago, gender continually changes.

Apart from all the usual, I'm genuinely agog that a job application process would ASK YOU IF YOU ARE "QUEER".

wtf

Also why 'cisgender' but just 'trans' (rather than 'transgender')?

It’s most likely a GDPR breach. They have no reason to collect this personal information about you as they have no legal or reasonable reason to need it. Cis/trans/magic identity bullshit is not a protected category.

I would tick 'Questioning'. As in, .

The use of "queer" would make me wonder about ageism and lack of understanding of older people experiences, there are plenty of us older LGB people (I'm early 50s) who remember this as an insult as bricks were thrown through our pub windows (which I experienced) or were physically attacked. Or we remember our families and friends using it when we weren't out but left in no doubt what they would think of us. They aren't the sort of associations that go away.

It would be good if they saw this thread....

Though I had to correct an organisation's monitoring around sex and gender just because they were ignorant of the issues, not woke.

They can fuck off with that

I wouldn’t go further with the application.

A publishing company by definition should know the meaning of words.

If they don’t understand the difference between sex and gender then I wonder what else they don’t understand.

A person who is "cisgender" by definition embraces the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes associated with their birth sex, performs them happily and does not feel uncomfortable with or disagrees with or rebels against those stereotypes

What are these stereotypes and who comes up with them.

Companies are obliged by law to monitor the protected characteristics as per the Equality Act.

This is not true. There's no legal requirement to conduct monitoring. It's optional and no one has to agree to be monitored.

www.gov.uk/employers-responsibilities-equality-monitoring

TBF I don't think they use this for their gender pay stats etc but use the info hr hold.

Which could also be cobblers of course

If they aren't collecting sex they won't know if they are getting diversity in applications from men and women, nor if there is imbalance in who is invited for info.

Handy eh for those who don't like that sort of thing when it comes to women!

It is really out of line to put intersex in there. I suspect it highlights that no one understands or thinks about what they are actually putting on these lists.

The best approach would be sex for one question (born as) and then some genders or do you have a trans identity or similar.

The right thing to do is monitor both these groups.

The wrong thing to do is just ask gender.

The right thing to do is monitor both these groups.

I would be interested to hear what people think the point of monitoring is. For example if an organisation of 10,000 people finds out that 47 employees are queer what are they going to do with that information? What is it telling the executive teams being told that they have to pay to find out how many queer people are working for them, other than 47?

Just leave it blank. I don't know what half of those mean - and don't care!
Although I'd think about whether I really wanted to work anywhere so 'woke.'

There's a note above the gender identity question saying it was written in consultation with the company's Pride group.

They would have done better to consult a solicitor who is up on The Equality Act, employment law, and GDPR because what they are doing is not legal.
Can you flag it to ACAS?

@Skyliner001

I didn't realise I stumbled into a GC echo chamber. 😳😂

It’s got bugger all with being GC or not and everything with being accurate. Sex and gender are not the same thing, as well you know!

[quote Portnlemon]Companies are obliged by law to monitor the protected characteristics as per the Equality Act.

This is not true. There's no legal requirement to conduct monitoring. It's optional and no one has to agree to be monitored.

www.gov.uk/employers-responsibilities-equality-monitoring[/quote]
Yes, you are right, I worded that wrongly. It's correct to say

Private employers do not have to monitor protected characteristics, nor do they have to have Equality and Diversity policies.

But they must not unlawfully discriminate against anyone, neither in recruiting nor in employing someone.

And one of the most effective ways an employer has to make sure that they do not unlawfully discriminate is by monitoring the protected characteristics of the people it employs or seeks to recruit. And a good E&D policy can help avoid unlawful discrimination in the workplace.

A rubbish form like the one encountered by OP is utterly useless for the purpose it is supposed to serve though.

What are these stereotypes and who comes up with them.

As I said, they are constructed by society (but not typically by individuals). Which means that stereotypes can not only vary between societies, but within the same society, they can also vary between different times and places.

So unless you know the list of stereotypical aspects of being male or female then you really can’t answer then you might not be Cis anything

I don’t conform to certain female stereotypes so then does that make me a woman but not a cis woman

I doubt then if we are looking at stereotypes to label someone as Cis then no one is actually Cis anything as most people have aspects of the opposite sex in their personality and are not 100% masculine or feminine
It still makes us Male and female but not Cis Male or Cis female

For my part I had to do a survey at work, one of the questions was 'what do you identify as'? Male, Female, trans male, trans female, non binary, other, prefer not to say. (it's anonymous so I queried it.)

I agree that under GDPR it would be interesting to know why they would want to collect and hold that data

Maybe submit the application
and follow it with a SAR

If you are cis gender then you are the sex you were born with

No. I'm not cis gender. I don't have a gender. And I don't identify with cis. But I am a biological woman.