Bernadine Evaristo on R4 - put gender n the blender

[partystress]

Did anyone else hear this? I tried really hard to understand her argument, and agreed with much of what she said, but was completely confused by how she got to her conclusions, given the points she made, along the way, eg about blue and pink being 20th century marketing.

On a couple of occasions she talked about post-surgery, but there was an ambiguity around self-id and I was unclear whether she thinks all TWAW. I would love to hear where her thinking takes her on women’s sports.

Would be interested to hear others’ Thoughts on it.

more stuff on Conan Doyle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_Fairies

Right I need more coffee....

A wee google suggests there are at least a couple of novels and a TV series made on Conan Doyle/Houdini. I'd forgotten about the Cottingley fairies!

Not listened to the programme but recently read her book, which I thought was brilliant. The depiction of the non binary character was a bit of a caricature & overly perfect but it didn’t detract from the brilliance of the book overall, for me anyway. There are 2 central characters Amma & Dominique. Both black, lesbian feminists. Amma ultimately is the more successful & adapts to the changing times. Dominique has success but seems to be losing it near the end of the book, when there is a key conversation between the 2 women who I assume are late 50s at this point. Dominique is critical of the commodification of feminism, whereas Amma is just delighted feminism as a concept has become popular again. Dominique’s women only festival has been cancelled because she only allows women born to attend. Amma tells Dominique she needs to stay relevant....and there we have it. I think that’s what Bernardine is doing ‘staying relevant.’ It’s clear to me that she knows all the arguments back to front. Perhaps she doesn’t feel invested enough to take rad fem position, preferring populism to get some general feminist messages across.

Anyway the book is great for so many other reasons & the potted histories of each character (there are many) fascinating. I’d recommend it but mebbe I’ll swerve the R4 interview.

I’d like to see her tell Black Lives Matter they should move to All Lives Matter in order to stay relevant.

Thank you for listening to that so I don't have to.

There are some trans people in Girl, Woman, Other but they are all post-genital surgery or post-mastectomy. It may be that this is what she thinks all trans people are.

She's a sharp social critic, and there are some funny satirical passages, but this is a real blind spot IMO, probably based on the trans people she knows and the fact they are decent people who don't scream at her for accidental misgendering.

I think she talks a load of cobblers about gender but this doesn't stop me enjoying her stories, her characters and her command of language. The same goes for Margaret Atwood

binterested There are some nuanced discussions about race and privilege in the book. Amma’s daughter is v woke & goes to uni. Her views on hierarchies of oppression are challenged to some extent, when she becomes friends with a rich student of Egyptian heritage, who buys her way through academia and a white, northern poor girl.

I was confused that her concluding line was “lets put gender in the blender” I assume means to destroy it? Which is our starting point?!

Yes she nailed the woke daughter quite well so I’m surprised at her tolerance for other mantras from that church.

I don't know who this woman is, but she can go to hell for saying that intersex is a third sex

If she claims to have studied this subject in depth, but thinks that 'intersex' is a third sex, its difficult to take anything she says seriously.

In Evaristo's own words: The scientific fact is that we are born into a biological sex, which is male, female, or intersex.

It's worth listening to the whole talk, 10 minutes. It's a pick'n'mix of tempting morsels for TRAs to pick out and share around.