Assigned at birth - sex and gender identity

[BewaretheIckabog]

Firstly, maybe I’m a pedant but sex is assigned before birth. Very helpful in screening for genetic conditions, not so helpful when it results in female infanticide.

So even with a belief in gendered identity ‘assigned at birth’ is a nonsense.

Secondly, if our sex, our chromosomes and genitalia have nothing to do with whether we are a man or a woman we should not give our children gendered names or refer to them as a girl or boy until they tell us what their gender identity is.

Hannah and Jake Graf celebrating the birth of their daughter said ‘finally she’s here’. How do they know they have a daughter?

Surely they should be using gender neutral pronouns. She may not be a girl. Are they oppressing her and projecting their transphobia by calling her she by making assumptions based on their child’s sexual characteristics?

The theybies in adult life will write academic papers on the harms of the non cis nuclear family on pronoun deprived children, Hannah & Jake, future boomers/zoomers/losers.

I know it's all getting ridiculous isnt it. We can all see the obvious science but as soon as you try and get into a logical debate they think if they just keep shouting vague unprovable statements it will all become true. It's all very Orwellian / Emporers new clothes

You’re not pedantic enough, actually, OP! Sex is not “assigned” before birth, it’s simply “observed” - either on scan or by chromosome studies. It has nothing to do with gender stereotypes or feelz and is factual, scientific and unchangeable. Humans are like all mammals in that regard. I was a doctor for 36 years in the NHS, and neither I nor my colleagues ever “assigned” a sex to a patient, either ante or post natally!

Sex is not assigned. It is observed, whether at birth or earlier.

Gender on the other hand is entirely assigned. From the moment the baby's sex is known assumptions are made and expectations imposed. A person's internal sense of gender is nothing more than their internalised stereotypes.

Re the Grafs, YABU to expect rationality from people totally embedded in an irrational ideology. YABU to expect consideration for other's views from people totally embedded in an ideology that promotes narcissism.

You're quite right, OP. It is dreadfully transphobic of them.

Sex is determined at conception though. There's no assigning about it. If something is assigned the existence of an assigner is implied; fine if you believe in souls and creators and whatnot but definitely not scientific.

I wish they'd be clearer about what 'gender' means in 'gender identity' though. Sex-class identity, or sex role stereotype identity? Neither's predetermined, but the clarity would be useful.

Thank you Babdoc et al - I stand corrected on the assigned.

Still stand by the assertion every TRA should be bringing their children up gender neutral.

Funnily enough my dog can tell the difference between men and women regardless of how they present.

I was wondering what the word used by doctors was before all of this wording arose about trans and identity etc. It's a fair bet it wasn't 'assigned'. I'm not sure 'observed' is sufficient or indicative of the doctor's role. Anyone could observe it but the doctor does more than that.

A poster has used 'determined' above and that sounds right. I suppose you could also say 'identified' the sex.

Can you imagine their shame when their baby 'she', goes to choose something blue to wear instead of pink!!! Or chooses a car to play with instead of a doll!!!!

Hopefully they realise their mistake calling their baby 'she'. The transphobes!!

It is funny the way people seem to think when you have a baby a doctor comes in and grandly declares their gender.
I already knew I was having a boy, so when the midwife asked me if I knew what I was having, I said a boy, and she said "Oh, how lovely". That was it. The word gender was never mentioned, we were speaking about his biological sex.

It's funny how some people think anyone suggested sex is determined only after birth.

What if their child is NB or trans? They are committing literal violence by misgendering her.

'Assigned at birth' is a term intersex people developed to talk about their experiences. It has been co-opted by some transitioning advocates along with a goodly bit of "forced teaming."