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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another young woman killed, rough sex defence.

28 replies

Dontbeme · 06/08/2020 17:00

www.independent.ie/irish-news/murder-accused-claimed-partner-died-during-erotic-sex-act-court-told-39428347.html

"A 23-year-old man accused of murdering his partner told police she died during an erotic sex act, a court has heard.

Dawid Lukasz Mietus, of Drumalane Park in Newry, was charged with murdering 20-year-old Patrycja Wyrebek.

Ms Wyrebek’s body was found in her home on Sunday in Newry.

Mietus, who is from Poland, was arrested on suspicion of the murder of his partner hours later.

The accused told police that he and Ms Wyrebek, who had been partners for seven or eight months, had a shared interest in erotic asphyxiation.

Jonathan Browne, a barrister for the accused, told Newry Magistrates’ Court that Mietus claimed his partner had introduced him to that form of sexual intercourse.

“He said that on that night they both drank a large amount of alcohol, a bottle of wine each and vodka after,” Mr Browne added.

“He said the deceased became unresponsive during consensual sexual intercourse and that was at a time they were practising consensual erotic asphyxiation.

“The normal agreement between the two of them was that if there was any threat or danger to either of them, they would use a physical signal to stop the intercourse.

“He said on the morning of question, she never gave him such signal to actually stop.

“This particular case being made is that this is entirely an accidental death in which there was no intention to kill or cause serious harm. This is without doubt an extremely tragic death.”

A police sergeant objected to bail citing concerns over a risk of flight as Mietus has ties outside of Northern Ireland.

The court heard that the accused was in contact with a family member regarding a flight to Poland.

A prosecutor told the court that he asked a family member to print a ticket in his mother’s name on Tuesday.

Sgt Brannigan said he had concerns about the seriousness of the alleged offence and the risk of interference with witnesses.

He told the court that relatives made statements that he told a relative on the morning of the alleged murder that he killed Ms Wyrebek.

He also said there are concerns that if he is released, he will be a danger to the community.

Mr Browne argued that the accused has “firm ties” to the community and has been working in Northern Ireland for a number of years.

He added that the defendant lives close to the border with the Republic and had “every opportunity to flee”.

Mr Browne said: “The death occurred around half-past midnight and he was arrested the following afternoon. He was arrested in a very distressed state. He made comments to the effect, ‘I killed her’.

“He was standing holding a knife when he was about to be arrested and was threatening self-harm such was the extent of his emotional distress.”

However, the judge expressed “real concern” over the seriousness of the alleged offence and refused him bail.

The case will be heard on September 2."

Sorry if a thread on this already exists, but I despair at the state of the world.

OP posts:
PinkPlantCase · 06/08/2020 17:04

Horrific. So glad he didn’t get bail.

Funny how we never hear of mean dying of erotic asphyxiation Hmm

I hope she has a good defence. Makes me wonder if he rang an ambulance or tried cpr.

EdgeOfACoin · 06/08/2020 17:39

Men do die of erotic asphyxiation, but they tend to be on their own. A man in my extended family accidentally killed himself in this manner whilst dressed in women's clothing.

You are right that you never hear about men dying during heterosexual 'rough sex' games though. At least, I know I never have.

queenofknives · 06/08/2020 17:39

Oh god. How fucking heartbreaking. The poor woman.

MoltenLasagne · 06/08/2020 17:42

Well if its found that he didn't intend to kill her it should be manslaughter (is there such a thing a negligible manslaughter?) and he should still face prison for it. Hopefully he doesn't get bail.

WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo · 06/08/2020 17:44

Why is it never men who die 'accidentally' during sex?

Luaa · 06/08/2020 17:46

If genuinely it was an accident you'd phone an ambulance as soon as she became unresponsive wouldn't you, not leave her there.

I despair at what my daughter's might have to deal with as they grow up.

Liverpool52 · 06/08/2020 17:53

His defence counsel says that on that morning she didn't actually give the signal to stop.

Bit difficult to do that when you're unconscious.

EdgeOfACoin · 06/08/2020 17:57

@Luaa

If genuinely it was an accident you'd phone an ambulance as soon as she became unresponsive wouldn't you, not leave her there.

I despair at what my daughter's might have to deal with as they grow up.

I know, I really hope feminism is due a revival.

Girls should know that they can say no to this stuff and they are not prudes for doing so.

WeeBisom · 06/08/2020 18:05

She didn't 'give the signal to stop' and his thought process was presumably 'oh well, better keep on strangling her then!" This makes no sense. The onus is on the strangler not to kill whoever he is strangling. This makes it sound like by not giving the signal she impliedly consented to being killed!

WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo · 06/08/2020 18:18

Sexual Offences Act 1956
Lack of consent may be demonstrated by:
Evidence that by reason of drink, drugs, sleep, age or mental disability the complainant was unaware of what was occurring and/ or incapable of giving valid consent

“He said that on that night they both drank a large amount of alcohol, a bottle of wine each and vodka after,”

Prosecution should argue consent was not possible. So this is both rape and murder.

DianasLasso · 06/08/2020 18:27

While I'm live and let live about most consensual sexual acts (many of which I wouldn't fancy myself but if it floats someone else's boat...) I really think we should consider criminalizing any act which could lead to death (strangulation, erotic asphyxiation, shoving sharp objects into orifices, knife/blood play).

It wouldn't stop them happening but it would massively up the bar for consent - people (men) would have to make damn certain their partner was consenting otherwise she could report them.

And criminalizing them would mean that it would be murder - the law would clearly say "you can't engage in these because it may lead to death", you engaged in them with conscious forethought and the knowledge that it might kill, therefore murder, no wriggle room.

BaronEssoStation · 06/08/2020 18:29

All the auto erotic asphyxiation cases that I've heard of are men. Some of them famous, yeah?

So...

men kill themselves during wanking and also female partners during sex.

But women don't really do that.

Whodathunkit?

CrazyToast · 06/08/2020 18:31

I thought they just decided that the rough sex defence wasnt allowed?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 06/08/2020 18:45

Well its not only ‘how come men never die from sex games gone wrong’

Its also ‘ how come its always the woman who wanted to do the sex games in the first place‘...always women asking to be throttled and their very considerate menfolk having no choice but to comply

isabellerossignol · 06/08/2020 18:58

@CrazyToast

I thought they just decided that the rough sex defence wasnt allowed?
I think it only covers England and Wales. Sad
Shinygoldbauble · 06/08/2020 19:06

This sickens me. Patrycja is dead. He can say what he wants about her now.
If he cared about her at all and it was truly accidental why didn't he try to get help.

FannyCann · 06/08/2020 19:14

Totally agree DianasLasso

Clymene · 06/08/2020 19:47

I hope every country in the world follows England and Wales' lead and outlaws the rough sex defence.

Grace Millane's murderer is appealing against his sentence arguing that she did consent.

No woman consents to murder

WeeBisom · 06/08/2020 19:49

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo, the 1956 act has been mostly replaced by the 2003 sexual offences act.This act has a presumption that if someone is intoxicated or drugged that they can't consent to sex. Unfortunately, that presumption is very easily defeated by the defendant saying "well, I thought she consented anyway and I reasonably believed it", so the case just then revolves around whether there is consent and whether he reasonably believed she was consenting. So in other words, the presumptions that you can't consent to sex if you are drugged, or drunk, or in captivity (!), or asleep (!) don't really do anything. The defendant can always just plead he thought consent was there.

IWantT0BreakFree · 06/08/2020 19:53

@DianasLasso completely agree with you.

PhoebeSnow · 06/08/2020 19:53

Disgusting and sickening news that once again a woman has died at the hands, literally , of a sick fuck , who then tries to blame the woman for her death. No one consents to being murdered.
I am angry that Grace Millane’s murderer has been allowed to appeal.

WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo · 06/08/2020 19:59

[quote WeeBisom]@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo, the 1956 act has been mostly replaced by the 2003 sexual offences act.This act has a presumption that if someone is intoxicated or drugged that they can't consent to sex. Unfortunately, that presumption is very easily defeated by the defendant saying "well, I thought she consented anyway and I reasonably believed it", so the case just then revolves around whether there is consent and whether he reasonably believed she was consenting. So in other words, the presumptions that you can't consent to sex if you are drugged, or drunk, or in captivity (!), or asleep (!) don't really do anything. The defendant can always just plead he thought consent was there.[/quote]
But he has admitted he knew she was very drunk? I'm not a lawyer but surely if you knew that they were very drunk, then you have admitted you knew they weren't capable of consent? And I would have thought that would apply doubly so when indulging in potentially life threatening acts? How could a judge reason otherwise.

DonnaQuixote · 06/08/2020 22:06

..always women asking to be throttled and their very considerate menfolk having no choice but to comply

Yes, that is very interesting. So many men are selfish lovers and don't care about pleasing women sexually, but when their partners suposedly demand strangulation and rough sex they just seem so eager to do it.

littlbrowndog · 06/08/2020 22:14

Yes Donna. Exactly

DianasLasso · 06/08/2020 22:21

In theory the legal test isn't "what the defendant believed, no matter how crazy his beliefs" but "what a reasonable person would believe in those circumstances" (hence the importance of jury trials - you're meant to get 12 ordinary, reasonable people in a room to bat around just whether the defendant's claims about his beliefs are (a) convincing beyond reasonable doubt and (b) reasonable.)

In practice however, I lost all faith in the ability of juries to come to any sort of conclusion about what constituted "reasonable" or for that matter "beyond reasonable doubt" when I read about the case where a man got off on a rape charge by claiming he had tripped and fallen, penis first, into the vagina of his inert 14 year old victim (inert because he had got her drunk to the point of insensibility).

He also claimed he didn't know she was 14. I'd like to see sex with underage girls made a "strict liability" offence where the defendant's knowledge is irrelevant; only the fact that she is under age matters (after all, that how we apply the law regarding sale of alcohol, hence supermarkets' posters saying "think 25").

In case anyone thinks I'm making this up, here's the court reporting from the Independent:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/i-fell-and-penetrated-her-by-accident-millionaire-rape-suspect-claims-a6767486.html