How menopause affects doctors

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

BMA study into the effects of menopause on working doctors:

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/workforce/challenging-the-culture-on-menopause-for-working-doctors-report

And an article calling for action to be taken :

www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/change-of-life-tackling-the-menopause-culture-to-retain-senior-doctors

'with 30,000 doctors at risk of menopausal symptoms in the 45- to 54-year age group right now, we need to make sure their needs are met'

As I was just complaining yesterday about how little action is ever taken regards menopause, I was pleased to see this. Although:

'Older doctors are pivotal for caring to patients and we have to retain them. To do that we must start talking about menopause openly and without gendered ageism'

Does the word 'sexism' just not exist anymore?

Thats interesting my Granny was a consultant, she resigned on ill health grounds due to menopause related MH issues in the 1960s. This affected her pension badly but I think she felt shame that she wasnt coping, she went to medical school in the late 20s and always felt women had to prove they were no different from men and could work just as hard.
Not really relevant as not contemporary but i have been thinking about it as I'm "that age" now and spotted the thread title

I wonder how much things have changed since your grandmother's time, though?

As a doctor myself, I'd say there is a massive problem with presenteeism (not taking leave when you are too ill to work) amongst doctors generally. As a junior doctor, you are made to feel incredibly guilty if you take a day off, and this then gets ingrained. On top of that is the expectation - common in all male-dominated professions - that women will conform to norms set by, and suitable for, men. So I am not surprised that female doctors find it very difficult to admit to menopausal symptoms or to obtain support.

Eyeroll at this para from the report:

People who are non-binary, transgender or intersex may also experience symptoms as a result of menopause or treatment related to gender transition. We did not receive any information from our survey on their specific experiences or challenges. However, employers and managers need to be aware and remember that their experiences of menopause may be different, especially if their transgender status is not known, for example, or they have faced discrimination or prejudice in the past. Every individual who is affected by menopausal symptoms should be treated with sensitivity, dignity and respect and be able to access support if needed

Embarrassing ignorance re intersex and NB people - neither group is going to experience menopausal symptoms due to 'gender transition'. Nor will TW. Transmen may if they take hormone treatments, so why not just say that? I'm guessing it's because TW will complain.

Also eyeroll at 'intersex', not DSD.

Surprisingly, there's a factual article in today's Guardian about this, which includes the words female, woman and sexism:

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/06/female-doctors-in-menopause-retiring-early-due-to-sexism-says-study

I'm sure I saw a survey somewhere that showed that older female GPs were very likely to be on HRT. Perhaps hospital doctors aren't quite so clued up.

Yes, I first saw the article on the Guardian, Grandma, went off and found the BMA report.

The effort involved in trying to be inclusive, MrsNoah, would be fine, were anything actually being done about the issues that face women in the first place. Sometimes it feels like women only matter if they are repurposed into one of the more fashionable gender groups - if you want to be taken seriously, you can choose any identity you like, so long as it's not 'woman'.

It's disappointing and infuriating that very little is being done to support women going through menopause, especially in high pressure jobs like medicine. It would make a big difference for women and society alike if genuinely inclusive policies took these sort of issues into consideration.

And many Gps have very little education themselfs about the menopause.My gp was helpful but I needed a lot of information myself to get the treatment I needed.

[quote GrandmaMazur]Surprisingly, there's a factual article in today's Guardian about this, which includes the words female, woman and sexism:

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/06/female-doctors-in-menopause-retiring-early-due-to-sexism-says-study[/quote]
I was amazed to see this, written like this, in the Guardian tbh

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Yes, I first saw the article on the Guardian, Grandma, went off and found the BMA report.

The effort involved in trying to be inclusive, MrsNoah, would be fine, were anything actually being done about the issues that face women in the first place. Sometimes it feels like women only matter if they are repurposed into one of the more fashionable gender groups - if you want to be taken seriously, you can choose any identity you like, so long as it's not 'woman'.

I'm not objecting to the effort to be inclusive, per se, but to the fact that they have lumped intersex, NB and all trans people in together when, in fact, only one subgroup of one of these groups - trans men - may experience menopausal symptoms in a different way from any other person born female (because of taking male hormones). NB and female people with DSDs will have a normal menopause - as the BMA should bloody well know!

Trans men as a group seem to be almost unmentionable as women.

Well! See what the ordinary woman is up against, if doctors cant get their concerns across to management what chance do we have of making a male doctor listen to us

We did not receive any information from our survey on their specific experiences or challenges.

Perhaps because there weren't any? Perhaps doctors are too busy getting on with biology and the realities of life to be as obsessively navel-gazing as people who define themselves in a way that is at odds with reality. And perhaps doctors with narcissistic personalities already have their needs satisfied through the power and authority of being a doctor.

@JellySlice

We did not receive any information from our survey on their specific experiences or challenges.

Perhaps because there weren't any? Perhaps doctors are too busy getting on with biology and the realities of life to be as obsessively navel-gazing as people who define themselves in a way that is at odds with reality. And perhaps doctors with narcissistic personalities already have their needs satisfied through the power and authority of being a doctor.

There is at least one TW in a very prominent role in the BMA. And the BMA has fallen hook, line and sinker for the "questioning teenagers transitioning = conversion therapy" madness, though I"m not saying that is the fault of this particular TW. I don't know her view on it and most of the medical established is fully on board with TWAW dogma, so the BMA would probably take that stance, regardless of her views.

@Crosswithlifeatm

And many Gps have very little education themselfs about the menopause.My gp was helpful but I needed a lot of information myself to get the treatment I needed.

The British Menopause Society does maintain a register of specialists (they introduced it the year before last). Sadly, I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the displays at my GP. An information campaign with referral criteria would be helpful.

It does seem to be luck of the draw for GPs with anything remotely unusual (not that menopause is unusual) but I'm often surprised by what my GP is well versed in, as much as the things they have to look up.

The board of the BMA may be captured, but the people surveyed were the membership:

To understand these better, the BMA circulated a survey to all our members in November and December 2019, which received 2,000 responses. Respondents were asked about the symptoms they were experiencing, how and to what extent they impacted on their working lives, and what support would make symptoms more manageable.

As there were no comments on trans-umbrella perspectives, it is likely that none of the respondents considered themselves to be anything other the standard variety of human being.

But, interestingly, the report does not specify the sex of the respondents, or whether they only surveyed female doctors.

Yet while the word female is mentioned only once in that document, on p10 in what appears to be a quote from a survey respondent, woman/women appears frequently, without any nonsensical ambiguity.

It does seem to be luck of the draw for GPs with anything remotely unusual (not that menopause is unusual) but I'm often surprised by what my GP is well versed in, as much as the things they have to look up

There is far too little teaching about the menopause at either med school or in GP training. Having said that, looking stuff up doesn't indicate lack of knowledge - it's more indicative of an area of medicine that changes rapidly, or where prescribing is complicated - which definitely includes HRT. There are many different combinations and formats, and if you get it wrong and accidentally prescribe oestrogen-only HRT to someone with a uterus (not in the Woke sense! - I mean a woman who hasn't had a hysterectomy), it's potentially dangerous. As I only issue a new prescription every couple of months, I always double-check the strength and format when I do.

This is interesting.

I work in a university and we recently introduced menopause awareness training. An older colleague of mine said she feels as though she lost years of research time to it.

Having said that, looking stuff up doesn't indicate lack of knowledge - it's more indicative of an area of medicine that changes rapidly, or where prescribing is complicated

I couldn't agree more, I'd also say it represents wisdom or, at least, healthy self confidence (being happy to tacitly admit the need to be up to date). I'd rather have a GP who double checks a fast moving field than one who messes up my healthcare because they want to give the impression of pre-existing knowledge.

I wish more doctors were willing to look stuff up. I know from family members that there often isn't the time, but I hugely appreciate a doctor who's willing to look into things and consider different options.

Menopause awareness training sounds interesting. It'd be good if more of this starts happening throughout different industries/sectors.

Embarrassing ignorance re intersex and NB people - neither group is going to experience menopausal symptoms due to 'gender transition'. Nor will TW. Transmen may if they take hormone treatments, so why not just say that? I'm guessing it's because TW will complain.

Totally agree. This illogical nod to transgender ideology is as bad as it was having to acknowledge that socialism is the best way to organise society in every piece written in my home country. Even in a straightforward grammar book.

And if they did care, what they would/could have said is that females who identify as trans and who transition medically go through menopause at the point of their transition (there are different approaches, but menopause can set in with hormone blockers or post hysterectomy). Even if they do not go through full blown menopause, those suppressing female hormones and/or taking testosterone typically suffer a number of symptoms usually seen in menopausal and postmenopausal women.

The small number of reports from those females who have experienced this show this to be not only a serious challenge, but also one that's neither understood nor are they supported through it. Definitely something that ought to be noted, but as these patients are far too young to be routinely included in the programs, they just get a nod but no effort expended on them.

But that would require actually thinking about the issue with some care rather than paying lip service to inclusivity.