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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Carrie Symonds suggested GRA reform delays?

26 replies

Xanthangum · 02/08/2020 09:01

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8584481/Carrie-Symonds-stopped-fianc-Boris-Johnson-ditching-transgender-reforms-MPs-claim.html

I'm working my way through this, the double negatives are bending my brain.

But I'm taking from it:

  1. Boris's partner has sway over Government Policy
  1. Boris shies away from confrontation and difficult topics
  1. The Mail on Sunday has so little respect for No. 10 that it can include the following sentence in their article: A Downing Street source said: ‘This story is untrue. Ms Symonds has not discussed this issue with the Prime Minister.’
OP posts:
nauticant · 02/08/2020 09:17

Call me cynical but I suspect that although Ms Symonds has not discussed this issue with the Prime Minister she may well have discussed this issue with Boris Johnson.

Needmoresleep · 02/08/2020 09:24

The Mail does not like Boris.

That said, I am sure that more than one of Boris’ advisors was telling him that this was a fight he did not need at the moment. Stonewall and the trans movement are burning themselves out. They do not have a groundswell of public support and never did. Organisations like the BBC and education authorities are starting to review their blind acceptance of Stonewall policies. Other causes, like BLM and clap the carers, are taking prominence and corporates will have less money anyway. It is also an issue close to the self destruct button in the Labour, LibDem, SNP and Green parties.

Whatever Carrie’s, or anyone else’s views, and some or all will be GC, I think the advice from Boris’ perspective to stay out of the fray is the right one.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/08/2020 09:41

Does that mean that according to the DM's source he's going to wave self ID through though?

highame · 02/08/2020 09:44

Whatever Carrie’s, or anyone else’s views, and some or all will be GC, I think the advice from Boris’ perspective to stay out of the fray is the right one.
I agree with your post @Needmoresleep. That last bit especially but I do think GC will need positive happenings, otherwise this could all get a bit dismal before it improves. Just a feeling but I think one of the considerations will be ditching the GRA. It has brought about too many complications and impacts on women by the way it is being misinterpreted. I think they want the tide to have properly turned before that one though.

Perhaps they will have to make some sort of announcement over the summer but then again, they do like to backtrack

OhHolyJesus · 02/08/2020 09:45

Symonds testified against Worboys. I hope Johnson listens to his girlfriend on a number of things.

OhHolyJesus · 02/08/2020 09:47

And the government have ditched the plans. It was 'scrapped' according to the Times leak.

Reform could work both ways. We have no idea what is coming tbh.

Needmoresleep · 02/08/2020 09:49

I would doubt it.

My guess is that Liz Truss is cross because Boris withdrew his support for her plans to bin Self-ID at the last minute. She is also cross for other reasons. Part of her crossness, shared with other Ministers, is Boris’ tendency to listen to close advisers, rather than his Ministers.

The decision to pull support at the last minute was probably down to advisers. Who though? Could equally be Cummings. Good policy, and good politics are not the same. The latter is also about timing.

The current Parliamentary Conservative Party is pretty much to the right. I don’t think Self-ID is on the agenda at all.

Jeeeez · 02/08/2020 09:56

I don't think it is either, but interesting that the DM are suggesting that Carrie stopped selfID from being dropped- it's always the woman's fault eh...

SquishySquirmy · 02/08/2020 09:56

It could be true, but it could also be complete nonsense!
I have noticed other examples of Carrie being not so subtly "blamed" for "why Boris is a bit crap now". Its a fun narrative to play with: "devious female sleeps her way to power, now has undue influence on good old Boris!"
Even saw an article speculating that his poor performance as PM during the pandemic was partly due to his choice of partner "his last wife was a solid rock of support he doesn't have that any more..."

The truth is Boris has always been an unreliable liar with self-interest as his only principle. He can u-turn seven times before breakfast without the help of anyone else.

Datun · 02/08/2020 10:02

Crikey, the no she didn't, yes she did, shenanigans in the article is astonishing.

It looks to me just like another 'testing the water' exercise.

Complete deniability, whatever he does. Slippery.

PerkingFaintly · 02/08/2020 10:06

"his last wife was a solid rock of support he doesn't have that any more..."

Do you remember where that article was, SquishySquirmy? That's actually impressively bad.

Whatisthisfuckery · 02/08/2020 10:09

I have no idea the validity of this story. Knowing the DM it’s probably somebody’s mate’s sister’s mate knows Carrie Symonds’ hair dresser’s aunty and they said...

I think it’s inconceivable that the tories will push forward with self ID though. They are toxic enough, without pissing off half the population plus their dad’s and husbands with a policy that makes 99% of the population go ’WTF?’

SquishySquirmy · 02/08/2020 10:22

Possibly the Telegraph? I was paraphrasing but that was the gist I took from it.

boatyardblues · 02/08/2020 10:25

@SquishySquirmy

It could be true, but it could also be complete nonsense! I have noticed other examples of Carrie being not so subtly "blamed" for "why Boris is a bit crap now". Its a fun narrative to play with: "devious female sleeps her way to power, now has undue influence on good old Boris!" Even saw an article speculating that his poor performance as PM during the pandemic was partly due to his choice of partner "his last wife was a solid rock of support he doesn't have that any more..."

The truth is Boris has always been an unreliable liar with self-interest as his only principle. He can u-turn seven times before breakfast without the help of anyone else.

What a shame his need for novel extramarital leg-over opportunities means he keeps kicking all these super wives of his to the kerb...
SansaClegane · 02/08/2020 10:26

Has anyone seen this? Sunday Times.

Carrie Symonds suggested GRA reform delays?
boatyardblues · 02/08/2020 10:26

Need more crumbs to follow that trail Sansa.

ChattyLion · 02/08/2020 10:30

The truth is Boris has always been an unreliable liar with self-interest as his only principle. He can u-turn seven times before breakfast without the help of anyone else.

Grin
Longtalljosie · 02/08/2020 10:33

The article doesn’t say she did - it says Tory MPs are gossiping that it might be down to her. Which they probably are. But the sort of MPs likely to be saying that to journalists aren’t likely to be any where near close enough to No 10 to know one way or the other.

The DM specialises in articles which are 100% speculation with a denial at the end.

teawamutu · 02/08/2020 12:37

@SansaClegane

Has anyone seen this? Sunday Times.
Ok, that's slightly reassuring - not going ahead with self-ID, just trying to avoid a row about it.
Imnobody4 · 02/08/2020 13:29

Not sure about the 'avoiding it being a row about toilets' bit in the Sunday Times. Surely they've got to be crystal clear about single sex spaces, they can't try to fudge it.

ThePurported · 02/08/2020 14:12

Oh, well, if 'moderates' like the unelected slogan man Isaac Levido think that it's a bad idea, Liz Truss must be wrong Hmm

I hope this puts an end to comments like "Boris will sort it, he knows what a woman is".

"will make transitioning less bureaucratic"
In what way is the process too bureaucratic?

Needmoresleep · 02/08/2020 14:51

Boris has enough on his plate with Covid19 and Brexit.

He has seen the reaction JKR and others have received. He does not need to take the fire on this issue right now. He may throw the odd sop or two, like a reduction in fee, though I never understood this given fees for the elderly to make out Powers of Attorney are almost exactly the same and Stonewall never mentions the struggles some older long term members might have in paying these. The Self-ID battle can rage in the other parties. When people are sick of the whole thing and wondering why a small number of people are considered so special and what the problem actually is. (Access to women's prisons and toilets, medicating minor children, allowing natal men to excel in women's sports - none of which can be described as popular.) Boris, post Brexit and Covid can act.

Dreeple · 02/08/2020 14:59

ChattyLion: The truth is Boris has always been an unreliable liar with self-interest as his only principle. He can u-turn seven times before breakfast without the help of anyone else.

We need reliable liars!

RobinMoiraWhite · 02/08/2020 16:53

@OhHolyJesus

And the government have ditched the plans. It was 'scrapped' according to the Times leak.

Reform could work both ways. We have no idea what is coming tbh.

No. The Sunday Times report and this article in The Mail are attempts by the Truss camp to ‘bounce’ the argument.

This is a despicable government Who can never be trusted (whatever side of this debate you are on) and are here fighting with each other through the media.

wellbehavedwomen · 02/08/2020 17:12

@Dreeple

ChattyLion: The truth is Boris has always been an unreliable liar with self-interest as his only principle. He can u-turn seven times before breakfast without the help of anyone else.

We need reliable liars!

It's true though, isn't it?

Good politicans are reliable liars - you know what you're voting for, and that they'll be disingenous in reliable directions. Their speech will be framed in self-serving ways, but the general direction of travel will be discernible, once you slice away the waffle and misdirection, and factor in the self-interest around doing what the whips want them to.

When you have no idea what someone really thinks, you have no clue what you're voting for. The last election was effectively a second referendum, so Brexit - a hard one, at that - was a done deal from the start. The rest? Anyone's guess.