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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Gender Dysphoria

45 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/08/2020 10:06

I don't know if this is new or not but:

"A diagnosis of gender dysphoria in childhood is rare.

Most children who seem confused about their gender identity when young will not continue to feel the same way beyond puberty. Role playing is not unusual in young children."
www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

And:

"It's not unusual for children to show an interest in clothes or toys that society tells us are more often associated with the opposite gender.

With toy stores dedicating whole floors to colour-coded boys' or girls' toys, as just one example, it's not surprising that parents may expect a child to closely match traditional expectations of how male and female genders should behave.

You may be worrying that your child's exploration of different gender preferences and behaviours is not "normal" or you may feel that such explorations are somehow your "fault". However, none of this is the case.

We now believe that gender identity is on a spectrum, with male at one end, female at the other and a "diversity" of gender identities in between. These can include male and female, non-binary or even agender (no gender).

A young child's exploration of different gender identities is quite common and, in most cases, will fade. However, in some, it will continue into later childhood and adolescence."

And:

"In many cases, gender-variant behaviour or feelings disappear as children get older – often as they reach puberty. Many will go on to identify as gay or lesbian."
www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/think-your-child-might-be-trans-or-non-binary/

OP posts:
WorkingItOutAsIGo · 01/08/2020 11:41

Sorry but I think this is still sexist crap. Toys are toys and it is deeply deeply wrong to imply girls should like this and boys should like that. I feel this text gets a bit close to saying that.

Mumoblue · 01/08/2020 11:45

I dont like how "no gender" is part of the gender spectrum. I wouldn't call atheism a religion. As a non believer in gender, I dont like that it's all lumped together.

Datun · 01/08/2020 11:54

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

Sorry but I think this is still sexist crap. Toys are toys and it is deeply deeply wrong to imply girls should like this and boys should like that. I feel this text gets a bit close to saying that.
Indeed. And that in time those preferences might 'fade'.

As though the child will right themselves eventually.

They need to tell us what those preferences are. Let's hear it in black and white. Let's hear exactly why playing with the kitchen, or the toy Hoover is something only one sex does. And why.

Toomie · 01/08/2020 11:55

It would be okay if that bit said 'gender identity is in a spectrum with masculinity at one end and femininity on the other'

Toomie · 01/08/2020 11:56

That sentence I mean not the whole thing!

OldCrone · 01/08/2020 12:04

@merrymouse

We now believe that gender identity is on a spectrum, with male at one end, female at the other and a "diversity" of gender identities in between.

I'd love them to explain what constitutes 'male' gender identity is, and why women don't have that identity. I think I will have to write and fine out.

Also when they say 'we', who are they referring to? The people who wrote the article? The NHS? Society in general? 'Experts' in the field (and which field)? Because I certainly don't believe that because I don't believe in 'gender identity'.

And what place does 'belief' have in the NHS? Shouldn't they be guided by science and evidence rather than belief?

Datun · 01/08/2020 12:09

@Toomie

It would be okay if that bit said 'gender identity is in a spectrum with masculinity at one end and femininity on the other'
I agree.

Although it then begs the question as to why our national health service is getting involved in children being masculine and feminine.

MadBadDaddy · 01/08/2020 12:32

@Mumoblue

I dont like how "no gender" is part of the gender spectrum. I wouldn't call atheism a religion. As a non believer in gender, I dont like that it's all lumped together.
I think you're onto something here. 'Agender' would actually describe a lot of the posters on this site quite well. It's the Atheism of gender - a rational position as opposed to a faith-based one. It's an absence of an identity. The only trouble is when it gets militant - ie "Gender doesn't exist so gender dysphoria cannot exist"

Be proud! You get a flag and everything!

Apollo440 · 01/08/2020 12:38

A young child's exploration of different gender identities is quite common and, in most cases, will fade. However, in some, it will continue into later childhood and adolescence.*
So a girl who likes lego will go back to playing with dolls and forget about silly ideas about being an engineer and if she doesn't then we can lop her breasts off because she is really a boy.
This regressive nonsense should not be peddled by anyone least of all the NHS.

gardenbird48 · 01/08/2020 12:51

The number of 3/4/5 year olds that say "I don't want a blue plate, I'm a girl" or "Girls don't play with Lego" or "He wants to play the mummy and he can't cos he's boy" etc etc etc (especially at the start of the school year) makes me very frustrated but it's fun to see them changing their minds. By the end of the school year, most children are very accepting.
I’m shocked that parents impose their children - it is obviously coming from the parents at that age. I’ve got girls and a boy and they shared clothes and toys and it would never have occurred to any of us to select our crockery colours based on sex!!

Aesopfable · 01/08/2020 13:14

I’m shocked that parents impose their children - it is obviously coming from the parents at that age.

Not entirely, you are not considering the images young children came be bombarded with everywhere from cinema, adverts, toy-shops, supermarkets, on their clothes...

SheWhoMustNotBeHeard · 01/08/2020 13:23

@Aesopfable

I’m shocked that parents impose their children - it is obviously coming from the parents at that age.

Not entirely, you are not considering the images young children came be bombarded with everywhere from cinema, adverts, toy-shops, supermarkets, on their clothes...

Yes, while that is true, I find that children from certain backgrounds and certain (dare I say it) religions have the most rigid views of what it means to be a girl or a boy. Boys and girls are treated very differently in those families. I recognise it because it was the same in my own family.

Valambtine · 01/08/2020 13:42

@gardenbird48

My DD has older brothers. She went very princessy around age 3. It came from her, from her peers at nursery, and from the media; not from me and her dad. I think it was grounded in carving her own identity as "different" from her brothers as they are boys and she is a girl, so she went to the extreme stereotype in working out how to be a girl in a family of boys. She has grown out if it now of course at 9. Her friend who also has older brothers went the other way: identified with her brothers and refused anything "girly" as a toddler and small child. She too has grown out of it aged 9 and is happy to wear a wider range of clothing etc

gardenbird48 · 01/08/2020 13:56

@Aesopfable - you may well be right - things have changed since mine were little (15 yrs) but the teacher above was referring to Pre schoolers and at that age I think it is possible for parents to have a very high degree of control over their influences. We didn't take our littles to the cinema or to Toys r Us. I gave them dvds to watch (and even some old series from my childhood like The Moomins or The Clangers etc) I recognise that it is hard to avoid everything but I think that a clear message from parents (about anything) can override much external influence.
From what the teacher was saying it did sound like it comes from the parents as once the school introduced the idea that they are not bound by the stereotypes the kids ran with it. If parents are not the main influences on their pre school children that is a bit of a worry.

togetheragain · 01/08/2020 14:13

Between this and the bbc removing support of stonewall and mermaids it almost feels as though the state is getting its ducks in a row distancing itself from the ideology before the explosion (which will hopefully be not only dropping reforms to the GRA but also an investigation into how stonewall got its tentacles into everything).

SheWhoMustNotBeHeard · 01/08/2020 14:22

@gardenbird48 @Aesopfable

Children, even young children, are, of course, influenced by friends, siblings, media etc. No doubt about that, but in my own experience, the children are actively encouraged to be "pretty in pink" or role play being a fireman (they end up saying fire fighter 😁) .

(As an aside I have lots of interesting conversations with children about what they think girls and boys can or can't do or what they think men and women can or can't do!)

SheWhoMustNotBeHeard · 01/08/2020 14:23

Sorry that was supposed to for @Valambtine too

Jeeeez · 01/08/2020 14:41

I'm glad nhs.org have toned down their description but I'm still going to write to them saying that gender identity is an unproven theory that risks inflicting great and possibly permanent harm on children, so if discussed at all should be described as only a theory.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 01/08/2020 14:43

An interesting thread.
Isn't it shocking that trans activists were able to influence and "persuade" the NHS to abandon all facts and knowledge about medicine, sex and sex based differences in favour of their 'gender woo' bollx? How easily that happened - and how financially rewarding for the organisations and individuals selling their personal stories to organisations in order to influence their practice.
Quite chilling when you look at the harm this has caused to so many children Angry

BatShite · 01/08/2020 16:01

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