Do *some* men not see sexism in progress?

[peekaboob]

Had a convo with DP earlier off the back of a thread on here. I mentioned some socks like his were in Aldi, and they had other men's work socks.... He said, jokingly, well you can't wear them then! Told him about the thread and how I commented that if I was a man I could go to the dump and not be asked if I know what I'm doing as I never see the male workers asking men if they need help. Discussion ensued about was I looking lost, did I hesitate etc, even how men going to the dump would just ask for help. Anyway I said that even if I get out the car, walk directly to which bin I need I am always stopped and asked. They never ask the men. I do a lot of dump runs. He does maybe 1/2 a year.
He then said when he goes he just gets on with it and doesn't take any notice (despite literally moments before trying to justify the workers at the dump) to which I replied he would if the same thing kept happening each time he went.
I sent him on a mission last winter to find functional, warm clothes for toddler DD. He came back empty handed as he didn't think tights and skirts were practical and that's all they had in the girls section. We had a discussion then about it and he said he'd never noticed (having had a boy previously) the differences in clothes.
So do some men just not see it? It's getting to the point where he's getting frustrated at me when I feel an injustice has been served on me regarding my treatment by men...

It sounds like he doesn't want it to be true so he is pretending it is not.

Most men can't be bothered to see it, it's too inconvenient.

they do not live it everyday, so don't see it. doesn't effect them as much so they do not need to pay attention to it.

Mine would make excuses too, the world isnt a horrible place for women, it's just xyz...
On another note, did it not cross his mind to look for some warm trousers in the "boys" section?

I’m a man and I’ve definitely been guilty of this. I obviously cannot speak for your DH, but if he’s anything like me there is a problem I have that if anyone (and especially if it’s a woman I care about) comes to me with a problem I immediately go into problem solving mode. Obviously if the old brain box rubs up against something as colossal as sexism I deep down know that I try and take on something that big my brain will short circuit, so a safer option is to go “well ok but was it sexism in this particular case?”. Cos if I can rationalise away fantastic problem solved! I’ve come to learn the hard way a better response is “fuck! I had no idea, that sucks, but please feel free when this sort of bs comes up please tell me, I’m always willing to listen to you, there’s no reason you should have to suffer through this frustration on your own.”

Never mind men, an awful lot of women don't see it either.

I suppose to some men it's an inconvenient truth.
Actions speak louder than words ect.

DH has got better about 'seeing things' through the last couple of decades raising a daughter. Like many good men, he genuinely thinks he's not at all sexist, and genuinely wants not to be - but some things simply don't impinge in the same way.

No they don’t. White people often don’t see racism. It isn’t convenient so they deny it.

Very easy indeed to ignore injustices that don't affect, or may even benefit, you. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@LookAtTheCahhOlivahhhhh we did go back together, with the objective of finding lined trousers or dungarees, that also were not pink or splattered with unicorns. We got her some dungarees from the boys section.

@Chitlin regarding women, that was one of the excuses he used. That a lot of women out there are weak and wait for the man to take the lead. I said to him that the dump workers should not assume that in every case as there are men too who have no clue at the dump but they wouldn't be asked every single time they went.
I'm off to the dump again tomorrow.

The times I've pulled him up on "man up" "scream like a girl" etc. We have both boys and girls. I don't get on with his dad as I call out behaviour that is racist and sexist, so I know he was brought up that way but goodness surely you'd want to listen when someone is telling you something, not just get frustrated?!?!

Great answer from Dervel.

I probably shouldn’t say this on a feminism forum, but I do think we need to cut men some slack on this. I think it’s incredibly difficult to understand the lived experiences of others generally. So, for instance, as a white person I can’t fully understand the experience of being black in a predominantly white country, as an able-bodied person I can’t really understand the experience of being disabled. Though I do try my best.

The only time I get irritated (sometimes furious) with men is when they refuse to listen to us and won’t even make the effort to understand.

It takes a real effort of will for women to see it - mainly because it's too big and scary and sometimes it's our lives on the line - so I don't think we can be surprised by men's inability to see the big picture. It's inconvenient, and uncomfortable, and following through on seeing it means giving up privilege.

Like, there have been a couple of jobs recently that I've wanted to go for but I've held back because they are jobs that should be held by people of other races or religions (I'm deliberately not being specific). It's taken an effort of will to do this and a degree of 'wokeness' for want of a better word, that I wouldn't expect many men to have.

To be honest though, I'd rather a goodish man that can't see it than a woke bro that believes he sees it and feels he can tell me how to feminist better... I'm vair tired at the moment though.

I agree that many women can't see it; I sometimes wish I could go back to the days when I thought feminism was all about choice and empowerment was about being sexy. Now I've seen the misogyny and sexism everywhere, I'll never unsee it, and it's flipping exhausting.

I feel the same sometimes @DCIRozHuntley - it's so depressing.

My DH won't even engage with any of it. Whenever I tell I'm something that happened to me he explains it away as my imagination or just states it didn't happen. It's extremely frustrating.

I once had men in a van shout "tits" at me on the school run. DH asked what I was wearing, as if that mattered, and also as if I had some secret wardrobe of basques I wore for the school run and at no other time, rather than my normal frumpy mom outfits.

Well nobody 'sees' something in the same way as you, if you experience it and they don't. It becomes an issue when people won't listen and use your experience to monitor their own behaviour. I've seen raging arguments on FWR between white and non-white feminists about racism. We are all guilty of living in our own little bubbles, because most of us are busy dealing with our own problems.

The Op's partner sounds like a bit of a cock though.