Single sex toilets at secondary (not a trans thread)

[UncleMatthewsEntrenchingTool]

We have had an email from school detailing all of the Covid arrangements for next term. DD will be year 7 so new school, not familiar with layout.

In an attempt to keep the years from mixing we have been told that the toilets near the year 7 classrooms will be converted to unisex.

I instinctively do not like this (lack of privacy and dignity for girls) and I have a feeling it may not be legal. Does anyone have the rules on this? I’m sure I’ve seen them on here before. It’s an academy if that makes a difference. I don’t know if there will be a basin in each cubicle, but I think not.

Can anyone help? I would like my facts straight before I mention an objection.

I'm almost positive it's not legal for children over 8 (someone here will have the proper legislation details).

I suppose it does depend on how they've converted them e.g totally enclosed bathrooms complete with sink and no gaps in the door - although that poses additional risks in itself if a child was to fall ill, self harm, do drugs in there etc...

I wonder why they do this. There must be a way to keep the loos the same or keep the years separate.

My dd starts high school in September. All of the toilets have been changed already ( couple of years ago I think) where there are no closed doors to the whole 'block' but the female toilets are separated from the males and the cubicles are not able to be seen to any other individuals. I don't know if I am explaining myself well here cos I've had a couple of wines.

But basically boys were upskirting girls in mixed sex toilets. The school stopped this and now have a girls cubicle which are toilets with no gaps in. Self contained cubicles that males are not able to enter.

Basically demonstrating why girls need separate loos from the boys.

How does channelling them all through the one toilet stop them from mixing? As a Covid precautions go, that doesn't seem particularly effective.

Personally I think it is demeaning for girls especially when on their periods. Imagine having to use machine to get tampons when boys are in there hanging about. A recipe for disaster.

Paragraph 13 of non-statutory government guidance 'Gender separation in mixed schools'

(June 2018) may assist you and direct you to the relevant primary legislation. I'm afraid I'm struggling to post a link but Google that title and it should come up.

It says:
"It is permissible for toilet and boarding accommodation facilities to be separate as they are captured under existing statutory exceptions. Separate toilet and washing
facilities must be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within
the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010. With regards to
boarding accommodation, Schedule 23 of the Equality Act 2010 allows for separation by sex providing the same standard of accommodation is provided for both boys and
girls." (all emphasis added by me)

Here's the relevant part of Regulation 4 mentioned in the below:

"Toilet and washing facilities
4.—(1) Subject to paragraph (3), suitable toilet and washing facilities must be provided for the sole use of pupils.

(2) Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over must be provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time."

The Regulations are stated to apply to all schools maintained by local authorities in England. I'm assuming that applies to you.

@Thisismytimetoshine

How does channelling them all through the one toilet stop them from mixing? As a Covid precautions go, that doesn't seem particularly effective.

Presumably they are keeping groups of pupils apart by restricting them to different parts of the school. If, say, they can restrict one bubble of 150 children to an area with six classrooms and one toilet block, that will be a extremely effective in reducing contact between bubbles of pupils.

It might not be ideal from a toileting point of view, but I can see why it's being done.
I would ask how they plan to protect privacy, rather than push for it not to happen.

I posted about the same happening in my sons primary school, I was told it was because they could not logistically under the guidelines do this in any other way.

womansplaceuk.org/mixed-sex-toilets-ins-chools/

On the paragraph headed by the text 'Paragraph 13'. Note the use of the word 'must'.

This isn't a school in Staffs is it? If so there was something on Twitter about this and a plea to a journo to apply some pressure. Appreciate the difficulties schools are facing on these matters but at the very least an Equality Impact Assessment absolutely needs to happen.

I work in a school with 'open' loos - a row of cubicles, floor to ceiling doors with self enclosed sinks etc open to the corridor - supposed to mean less mucking about...

Anyway, I noticed that so many girls were asking to use the loo right at the beginning of the lessons, when they had just had their break - turns out, they hated these open loos. No privacy.

One day, when I was on my period and the staff loo was occupied, I had to use one of the pupil loos, and as I opened my sanitary pad (never a very loud noise, I thought), there was a huge banging on the door of my cubicle and loafs of laughing and shouting - when I emerged, about four boys ran off (they didn't expect a teacher to emerge) and some girls waiting told me that the boys listen out for the girls opening the packaging of their sanitary protection....

There is a rule at my school not to allow students out of the classroom in lessons for the loo. I always let girls go now - if anyone ever asks me why, I will tell them....

Just awful.

In the school I work in all the toilets are being remodelled like this. They are all available to all genders. There is no 'loitering' because there is no common big space in the middle of that area (waste of space and encourages loitering indoors). There are basins inside each. The toilet doors are all just on a corridor so visible to staff and easy to police -only needs a staff member of either gender on duty. Much better system to protect children. No tampon machines. If a pupil doesn't have supplies she can get a towel from the school nurse.

You have a full time school nurse?!

So crap for girls and young women.

Rabbit

JFC.

Have you taken this to management?

Oh yes, I sent an email to several senior members of staff and the only response I got was 'who were the boys', but I did not know, I did not see who they were.... Also, without remodelling the whole school, what can be done? Me, I will just let girls use the loos in lesson time (and boys, if they are hopping about on one leg!!)

BUT when I spoke to my MP last week about the GRA reforms I mentioned it, that these 'open' gender neutral loos are a disgrace and girls are missing lesson time because they don't want to use them during break.....

lifeafter

"Available to all genders" - this is part of the problem, the conflation of sex and gender. Sex is the terminology we need to consistently use - as gender is not a protected characteristic nor is it of any importance when it comes to toilets.
It IS unlawful to have mixed sex toilets with no alternatives for children over the age of 8.

You might as well say ‘open to all hair colours’ or ‘all star signs’

You say mixed sex and unisex toilets but these are different.
Unisex is a self contained unit (toilet, basin and sanitary bin) and opens onto a public space.
Mixed sex should have floor to ceiling cubicles with shared basins. Each toilet will need a sanitary bin. Girls and boys are in the mixed space together.
Personally I don't think either are acceptable. Have you been over to Safe School Alliance to ask for help? They are on Facebook, twitter or contact via website. They have a fact sheet on this subject safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/ and another about sexism in secondary schools. Both of these should help you formulate a response to the school.
It is very worrying if schools do this because post Covid they will use it as evidence that it works. But for girls dignity, privacy and safety mixed sex should be avoided.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

@lifeafter50

In the school I work in all the toilets are being remodelled like this. They are all available to all genders. There is no 'loitering' because there is no common big space in the middle of that area (waste of space and encourages loitering indoors). There are basins inside each. The toilet doors are all just on a corridor so visible to staff and easy to police -only needs a staff member of either gender on duty. Much better system to protect children. No tampon machines. If a pupil doesn't have supplies she can get a towel from the school nurse.

No tampon machines and girls having to find the school nurse for a towel is progress? Those poor girls in that school I really despair.

Having tampon / towel machines and enabling girls to have safe same sex toilet and changing facilities in schools should be a fundamental right - and that's what the law still states so any school removing same sex toilets is in breach of it.

With regard to the pads & tampon things, when I taught in the U.K. the Head of PSHCE used to get sent boxes of 'sample packs' - presumably from companies that wanted product visibility - in fact ISTR san pro companies created some of the teaching resources she used.

She used to periodically (ha!) leave boxes in the girls' loos, on the windowsill. There was a machine too, but the box of freebies was a godsend if a girl didn't have cash/change.

Last year one ground floor block of the school was renovated & the m/f loos were converted into unisex accessible toilets - no trans identified kids, but a couple of wheelchair users at the school. There are still loads of m/f toilets nearby, so this was a sensible decision to be fair.

My mate can't leave san pro in these toilets. It gets trashed within hours & chucked all round the school. Presumably by the boys, since she's been quietly providing it in the girls' bogs for years without incident.

Reminds me of the poster a few weeks ago who had seen all her local park women's loos go gender neutral (with expensive, clearly intended to be permanent signs). The local authority claimed it was temporary and as a response to covid 19.

I suspect a lot of organisations will find this a useful excuse, and after a while unless sufficiently awful things have happened in sufficiently high numbers to females, it will be claimed that there is obviously no issue to worry about and it will be set in stone as permanent.

So important to stand up now for women and girls. There will be no way to measure the number of female people who stop using these facilities at all, the girls who stop drinking to avoid having to go to the loo, the girls who school refuse when they have a period, the girls who start going during lessons or sneaking off site to use facilities somewhere else in the area.

Female people's embarrassment, anxieties, vulnerability to shaming and harassment from males, vulnerability to sexual harassment and intimidation or worse from males, matter too . As much as and equal too the feelings and needs of any other group, or any other priorities the organisation may have.

The local authority claimed it was temporary and as a response to covid 19.
Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but can anyone explain why everyone using the same toilets is a defence against the spread of Covid?