Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Strategic Ignorance

24 replies

Glinner · 22/07/2020 16:10

I wrote a piece about 'Strategic Ignorance' and I wondered if people would mind sharing their examples of the phenomenon?

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/strategic-ignorance-and-jk-rowling

My favourite was when Billy Bragg blocked Debbie Hayton for this tweet. What’s yours?

Strategic Ignorance
OP posts:
SunsetBeetch · 22/07/2020 17:39

Was it Jameela Jamil who didn't believe that Karen White the rapist was real? Like it never occurred to her to look them up for herself.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2020 18:29

And Ash Sarkar who didn't believe Julie Bindel had ever campaigned for women prisoners, I think?

But in the true sense of the OP, I think the champion of "strategic ignorance" (in a crowded field) is Jolyon Maugham QC. Who blocks every woman who challenges him in a way he can't easily answer. And doubles down, without addressing the points.

Prof Alice Roberts, honorary mention. Along with lots of other blue tick Twitter pundits.

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 22/07/2020 19:52

The Harry Potter actors trying to cancel JKR has to be high on the list.

aliasundercover · 22/07/2020 19:56

Owen Jones of course

... though there might be no strategy, just ignorance.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/07/2020 19:58

Emma Watson pretend feminist.

JellyFishSquish · 22/07/2020 20:45

Strategic Ignorance -- transwomen in ANY women's sports, how anyone can blindly go along with that is beyond me, yet they do... It cannot be ignorance because no one is that ignorant and still able to function day to day. It is all strategic. "Fold the girls like a deck chair, but what can you do?" I have had a certain amount of wine Wink but that sounds like strategic ignorance to me.

Cascade220 · 22/07/2020 21:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SunsetBeetch · 22/07/2020 21:24

Laurie Penny. That thread where she turned up nd got her arse handed to her was a classic. Yet she still denies that the cotton ceiling is a thing.

Socrates11 · 22/07/2020 23:40

The Green Party, who strategically failed to see and get anywhere near addressing the glaring problems over safeguarding with child rapist David Challenor. Ejecting people from the party for asking questions ffs 😡

Side stepping around the very worst abusive behaviour to maintain some sort of righteously woke, 'inclusive' facade. A criminally negligent kind of strategic ignorance

TinselAngel · 23/07/2020 00:07

People who welcome transexuals into feminism and who centre them in this debate, who also have sympathy towards trans widows, yet don't consider the wife, daughters and other female relatives of the transexual that they are centring.

TinselAngel · 23/07/2020 00:08

nb using the term "transexual" because I believe that is how the people concerned generally identify.

nepeta · 23/07/2020 00:18

So many reactions to JK Rowling's tweet were based on purposeful strategic ignorance by warning people not to read what she wrote in detail, but just to accept someone's interpretation of her as transphobic.

There's also the very common strategic ignorance of refusing to actually study what the trans rights are the activists demand. Finding that they include the right to re-define terms such as 'women' and 'female' is too uncomfortable.

ChattyLion · 23/07/2020 02:11

Nice blog. It’s a good description- the ‘strategic’ bit is always self-serving and misogynistic. Plus a twist of cowardly (for those who look and still don’t speak up) or complacent (for those who can’t be arsed to find out although there’s clearly an emergency for women and children going on) or frighteningly ruthless (the ones who know full well and still act as the enforcers).

It’s strategic because there’s no personal risk in taking that position- they can all say they didn’t realise or didnt know, when asked in future why they sat on their hands.

I’m going to suggest all of the MPs who have been written to with detailed letters and have then responded with shit Identikit cut and paste replies from central office, or not replied at all.

Special shame on the MPs and Peers with Women’s and equalities and Health or Science briefs. Plus the Select Committee Chairs who have said no to running Inquiries in this area even while knowing Westminster is one of the few places left that women and parents can speak freely. Refusing to look in detail, even on the 100% immediately obvious injustices apparent to anyone with eyes- such as the NHS and private doctors invasively and permanently physically transitioning children and young people. Who are not in a position to consent.

or the placing of male sex offender perps in women’s prisons. With vulnerable women who are not in a position to object.

Or the schools teaching sexist, homophobic, anti-scientific crap to kids and taking away single-sex toileting, changing and showering in schools, which is particularly awful for girls.

Of current MPs, members who are speaking up are: Jackie Doyle-Price (speaking up), David TC Davies MP (for allowing women to hold meetings inside Parliament)

In the Lords: Baroness Nicholson, Lord Moonie, Dame Grey-Thompson all have spoken up. I think that’s it. Sad

ChattyLion · 23/07/2020 02:38

Also Tavi and Portland NHS trust management, NHS England Management, and the CQC and GMC and the Secretary of State for Health. Following all the various GIDs service staff resignations and whistleblowing over the past couple of years.. and now most recently even Sonia Appleby, the Trust’s safeguarding lead whistleblowing.

Girl Guiding UK Trustees

blubellsarebells · 23/07/2020 03:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

blubellsarebells · 23/07/2020 03:14

And yes girl guiding. The hoops they had to jump through to come up with let alone justify that nonsense policy.
We're watching you fuckers and we will hold you all to account when the shit hits the fan.

EmpressLangClegSpartacus · 23/07/2020 06:28

@TinselAngel

People who welcome transexuals into feminism and who centre them in this debate, who also have sympathy towards trans widows, yet don't consider the wife, daughters and other female relatives of the transexual that they are centring.
I think it’s so important to recognise this. Feminism is for women & girls, & that means that the voices of women & girls, such as trans widows and the writer of childrenoftransitioners.org/, need to be heard, not the voices of the male trans family members who might be talking over them.
wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 23/07/2020 06:36

Various police forces, including in Brighton where a mob was allowed to attack a woman's meeting, and others where 'misgendering' is investigated as a hate crime.

OneEndedStick · 23/07/2020 07:07

I'm pretty sure most of the wokeys have a fair idea this is going to be proven a massive fuck-up and they're deliberately avoiding their due dilligence, fact checking, research, asking basic questions so they can recite the TWAW creed now, and plead "oh but I didn't knooooow" in a couple of years time, when it's all exposed for what it is.

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 23/07/2020 08:35

Companies; Ocado, M&S, John Lewis and any other organisation that has wilfully denied the preferences of their majority female customers.

bishopgiggles · 23/07/2020 09:10

I'd be interested in a further breakdown of what you mean specifically by 'strategic ignorance' - is it just anyone who doesn't even address the very obvious issues like Karen White, rugby, etc, rather than someone who just argues around it with logical fallacies or dismisses it as not that important?

Are they deliberately not looking into these issues or are they just declining to comment on them (because they have no answer)? Blocking respected voices (eg transwomen) who point this stuff out would suggest strategic ignorance, but what about the Philip Pullmans who just wheel out the "oh, it's very complicated isn't it? " sort of resignation to never being able to find out anything for themselves?

Realistically it doesn't matter why they go silent I suppose, but you might imagine the ones who genuinely are not looking into the issues might get round to it at some point... perhaps? The Newsnight programme is a good example.

RoyalCorgi · 23/07/2020 09:38

Great blog from Glinner. I can't always tell the difference between plain ignorance and strategic ignorance. For example, I remember someone -
a woman - on Twitter saying it was ridiculous to believe that a male nurse might identify as a woman so he could get his kicks from carrying out cervical smears. Perhaps that was just plain ignorance? As soon as you google sexual assaults by health professionals, you'll discover a huge number of male doctors and nurses convicted of sexually assaulting women. It's most common, surprise, surprise, amongst obstetricians and gynaecologists.

And then when you get people telling you that male sexual abusers wouldn't identify as women to join the Girl Guides, or spy in women's toilets, or get into women's refuges, what is that? Is that not knowing, or choosing not to know? The idea that sexual abusers are operating some kind of honour code that stops them seeking out victims is just so bizarre. Have they really not being paying attention to the hundreds of news stories about sexual abuse committed by priests, sports coaches, teachers etc over the past few years?

I think people who are intelligent - people like Alice Roberts and Jolyon Maugham - are operating from a position of strategic ignorance, though. They are deliberately choosing not to know what they must in fact know. That's why they block anyone who points out, however politely, that they're wrong. Schools, hospitals, Girl Guiding UK - anyone who adopts a policy of allowing males into female spaces - are also adopting a policy of strategic ignorance. Hospitals know, for example, that on mixed sex wards, men will assault women. They pretend not to know.

R0wantrees · 23/07/2020 13:26

More disturbing than the bearded men is that there are even some middle class, liberal women who feel that the safety of other women and girls is theirs to give away. Can you imagine such a thing?

Are you unaware that girls and women are socialised to prioritise male feelings while boys and men are socialised to feel entitled to take up space and resources?
Are you aware of male patterns of coercive control?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

It might be worth reflecting on the 'strategic ignorance' of prioritising male transsexuals/ autogynephiles when claiming to advocate for women's rights & children's Safeguarding.

Academic Dr Em provides important history of how the women's liberation movement was impacted by those women who prioritised the demands of male TS in the 1970's.

George Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Uncommon Ground Media by Dr Em:
'What Was Happening Before ‘Just Be Nice Feminism’? Part I: Early Rumblings, 1970 – 1971'
July 12, 2020

"Dr Em charts the history of the development of ‘just be nice’ feminism and the inclusion of trans-identified males in the women’s movement.
uncommongroundmedia.com/just-be-nice-feminism-part-i/

'What Was Happening Before ‘Just Be Nice Feminism’? Part II: Beth Elliot, 1972'
July 21, 2020

(extract)
Like today, the inclusion of males claiming to be female based on sexist stereotypes split the Women’s Movement from within. This large split really began in 1972 when two lesbian feminists decided to prioritise the feelings and desires of males over females. The co-founders of Daughters of Bilitis (DOB), a lesbian civil rights group, Del Martin and Phyllis Lyons, argued for a compromise position and the inclusion of transsexuals as allies to women. This was ultimately rejected by the members, however, an exception was made for the transsexual Beth Elliott in light of his long-standing involvement. Beth was deemed a special ally to women. Jeanne Cordova reported in The Lesbian Tide in December 1972 how ‘on Tuesday, Nov. 17th, the membership of San Francisco’s Chapter of the Daughters of Bilitis voted against admitting transsexual persons into their organization. Ending a several month long “very heavy issue”. This description indicates the length and strength of feeling surrounding the issue of whether males with penises could be lesbians and should be permitted into lesbian activism." (continues)

It was the infiltration and inclusion of the male Beth Elliott in a lesbian feminist group which arguably birthed liberal ‘feminism’. It was reported in The Gay Liberator that ‘Commenting on the vote, Del Martin, co-founder of DOB and member of the San Francisco group, said, “DOB has always been set up as a woman’s organization. A person before having the (transsexual) operation is not legally a woman.” But a sizeable minority disagreed. “En masse and in something akin to cold fury,” the entire staff of Sisters magazine, the monthly publication of SF DOB, resigned their positions and their membership in DOB’. Women, supposedly lesbian feminists, sided with a man over women and women’s interests." (continues)

concludes:
Still, feminist pushback to males in female spaces and the Women’s Movement and Lesbian Movement and the ‘just-be-nice’ women who enabled this was on the increase. They lost the vote and male transsexuals were not to be included in the lesbian activist group, apart from one special transsexual ally – Beth Elliot. Only a few months later in 1972 Beth Elliott was expelled from the lesbian feminist group DOB over allegations that he had sexually harassed and assaulted the lesbian Bev Jo Von Dohre. Similar to the current sexual assault allegations against the trans rights activists Eli Erlik, allegations against Lilly Madigan, allegations of indecent exposure in the workplace against Jess Bradley, the rape allegations against Kami Sid, the sexual assault allegations against Andi Dier who heckled Rose McGowan, and the paedophilia allegations against trans activist Jessica Yaniv, to name just a few, the allegations against Elliott were dismissed as transphobia One of the clearest signs that people don’t really believe that these transsexuals/transgenderists have changed sex is that their behaviour will be excused and a woman disbelieved and slandered if she speaks up. Indeed, some women on the editorial board of supposedly feminist Sisters magazine with Elliott walked out over the decision to remove him because of sexual assault allegations. Some women will always support males over females. The vote of ‘No’ to include males was not taken as a complete sentence and ‘It was decided to have a National Lesbian Conference in L.A. in the spring of ’73’ because ‘D.O.B. in San Francisco [was]split over the trans-sexual issue’, part organised by the transsexual accused of sexual assault – Beth Elliot"

uncommongroundmedia.com/what-was-happening-before-just-be-nice-feminism-part-ii-beth-elliot-1972/

BatShite · 27/07/2020 16:28

So many reactions to JK Rowling's tweet were based on purposeful strategic ignorance by warning people not to read what she wrote in detail, but just to accept someone's interpretation of her as transphobic.

Same with transgender trends school guidance. DO NOT READ, just accept its hugely transphobic and complain about it, but definitely do not read it. Infact, it comes across as sensible and caring, but this is only because they are purposely cleverly hiding the transphobia so it looks like it does not exist!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page