Co-Ed school formerly all boys

[lalalalaloo]

I am concerned that the school my daughter wants to go to (out of 3 in the area) will have issues with catering to her needs as a female

The reason for this is that it was an all boys school until 4/5 years ago.

In my mind with the majority same staff (mostly male) and it's history the policies and culture will indirectly favour boys.

The other two schools are a co-Ed (always has been) and an all girls.

What do you guys think?

I assume staff will have been at mixed sex schools before, as will a lot of the pupils. As long as they have changing facilities and loos for the girls it will be ok?

I doubt it will be a problem. If it was the first year there could be some practical things to iron out, but I imagine that will have happened by now.

OP, I think you're right to be concerned. One of the schools we looked at for DD's sixth form was a school that was all boys lower down, and mixed in the sixth form. She was keen on it, but I could see just by going round the school and observing staff and things like the pictures on the wall that it was very much a culture that favoured boys. One of her friends went there and that turned out to be the case. DD went to a traditionally mixed-sex school and had a much happier time.

I've taught in a school like this OP. Two main issues stand out.
Firstly is the attitude of the staff - especially the leadership. If it was a positive move and the staff are aware of the dynamics in mixed sex classrooms etc then it could be fine. If it's a school with falling rolls who went mixed sex to boost their numbers then what are the staff like? Is it an 'old boys network' with staff who have been there for decades and hold out of date / patronising attitudes to women and girls? Or does it have a good balance of male /female staff (including leaders) and have they ensured that girls are not just welcome in a token way but that any male centric assumptions (curriculum, pastoral care, sport etc) have been challenged and rooted out.
Secondly - numbers of girls. We found it a real challenge having small numbers of girls in each year group - if you spread them out in each tutor group then there were initially 2 - 5 girls in a group of 30. So we grouped them together in larger numbers but then had some all boys classes and some mixed sex.
With the right attitude - it could be fine.

Hmm it was an all boys school for the first 450 years, and absolutely is an old boys network.

Her father went there and so she is keen because she is incredibly similar to him and he had a great time.

I will need to investigate whether the number of girls is the same as the boys, that's a situation I certainly haven't thought about.

Initially the sixth form was coed but now the school is.

I went to a school like this. The sixth form had had girls for 3 years and there were girls in my year and the year above lower down the school. In entry groups in the younger years, it was 50/50 split between the sexes. I loved it.

It probably wouldn't be my first choice, however you know your DD best and you can probably find out more about the situation by asking pertinent questions of the school. I agree with PP that the issues are a) attitude of staff b) opportunities for girls- are there plenty of sporting opportunities or is it basically just netball? (though nothing wrong with netball!) and c) numbers.

Numbers are not likely to be 50/50 in the early years, which is to be expected really as they build up. Is it a public school? If so you can expect them to stop at a 40:60 girl to boy ratio anyway, a practice that give me the absolute rage. Very few public schools are 50:50.

DH teaches in boarding schools and in the past I have actively dissuaded him from applying for roles at schools in a similar situation, because our DDs will likely go to the school where he teaches and I need to be confident that it's a good environment for girls. I wouldn't not send them to a recently coed school, but I would probably have more concerns.

I'm not a guy...

AIBU thread on using guys in an address to a mixed sex audience currently running.

I would think they are used to disciplining boys without girls to absorb it so that could be a positive thing.

But I can't say I wouldn't worry that its still somewhat ingrained to favour the boys..
Sorry not helpful really

Yes as a pp said it can depend whether it was a positive move or not. Also on your daughter’s personality. Ime a friend’s DDs went to a school like this. One outgoing, extrovert and sporty and could match the louder boys iyswim but the other quieter DD really struggled there.

Wouldn’t want this due to the likely numbers disparity.

Am more than slightly at teezletangler and the ratio thing. Would it be legal to cap girls attendance at a lower level than boys?

Yeah capping girls at a lower number than boys seems shocking.

Dd is currently in a class of 17 boys and 12 girls and we really feel those extra 5 boys.

I think because the schools are independent they can do whatever they want. I can count on one hand the number of co-ed public schools I know to be 50:50! I think there is this archaic notion that girls will "take over" if they are 50% of the student body. Public schools are ultimately still about maintaining male privilege as well as class privilege.

My eldest (a boy) went to a school like this for a couple of years. It hadn’t long changed so the oldest year groups were all boys and then the balance improved as you went down the school.

The changes had come with a new head (previous retired) and thus quite a few staff had also turned over (long timers retired with the previous head) and the facilities for the girls were all new and purpose built but I really would pay a lot if attention to this kind of detail before making a decision.

Yes, one of my DDs had a boy-heavy class for a few years, she got on well with the boys and behaviour was largely good, but it wasn’t ideal IMO.

I think you do need to look properly at the school. There will be all kinds of hints :

what's the staff make up in terms of male/female and ratios for leadership positions too (eg if 25% of teaching staff are female but leadership positions are only 5% female, I'd be very very concerned. I'd also be less happy about 25% of teaching staff in itself).

Look at positions are available to students and how are they allocated? eg is there a head boy and head girl? Looking at year books, publicity etc, does Head Boy get higher ranking? Or is there just a "head student" and is that more often a boy? Ditto other positions - I'm not sure how high schools work these days but in mine we had various arts and other committees - are these stuff full of boys?

What about sport? Does boys sport seem to take precedence in terms of quality of coaching, facilities etc? If the boys rugby team is off on an international tour every 2 years, is similar happening for the girls hockey team?

I intend to look at all of this very very closely when choosing schools for my DC in high school because my co ed school, was extremely biased towards the boys and, now that I'm looking at this stuff I can see that the signs were all there. To be fair, it was 30 years ago. But still.....

Does Wikipedia or the Good school guide not give the split of numbers?

Or an inspection report.

My DD is now at her second school that was originally all boys but switched to co-ed (she's Y9, 10 in sept). Primary was independent, secondary is state. Both schools changed around the same time as one another.

I would say it depends entirely on your child and on the school and how they handle it.
At primary, the ratio in her cohort was about 3:1 b:g. With three form intake, there were still plenty of girls for children to make friends with, and generally all the girls had one or two very close friends without problems. DS attended the same school, and although his year had the same ratio initially, more girls than boys left over the time from age 3-11, and there were some girls that found it harder to have a close special friend, though all were friendly with all the girls in their year. Other cohorts in between my children had a more balanced mix of g&b, overall the school is about 2:1 boys:girls.
I would say the only time she experienced issues of bias was with the behaviour of the oldest boys- there was for quite some time a lenient approach to curbing the rowdiness of the eldest boys (boys will be boys). However, that was really clamped down on in the year she was top of the school, and certainly in DS's cohort (3 yr gap) there was absolutely none of that. The boys in his year were very polite and well behaved and didn't throw their weight around in any way. Academically, the girls were pushed just as hard as the boys.
There was one issue of sexism with an extra-curricular activity in Y3, run by an external body, and our complaint was taken seriously and the external provider actually changed.

DS often opted for extra-curricular activities that were heavily dominated by girls (e.g. dancing, tapestry (!), yoga) but was always welcomed and strongly encouraged, so we were happy with that.

The secondary also is about 3:1 boys:girls, with variation between year groups again. There have been no issues whatsoever with expectations of performance or behaviour. DD is taking subjects that are traditionally "boys' " subjects, but has been encouraged and supported at every step.
The only surprise for me was that PE is mixed! I was at a co-ed comprehensive, and PE/Games were always separate, so it seems very odd to me to have boys and girls doing gymnastics, dance, athletics, badminton etc all together. Rugby, football, and netball are separate. Hockey is mixed.

As their primary was independent, they always had games separate too.

. I think for me the main issue would be how many girls there are. If it's still way off 50:50 then I wouldn't be keen.

Although it's hard to say without knowing all the circumstances, I'd be cautious.

I (as a girl) went to a formerly all-boys' public school, and it was not great.

I went as a full-fee scholar, and was the only girl in the top maths and science sets, so to be fair it's hard to say how much of it was being female and how much being the "scholarship child", but from day one I was treated pretty appallingly by boys and teachers (male and female) who were used to it being an all boys school.

The ingrained misogyny was hard to escape; a general sense that I was encroaching on male spaces, and that I was a second-class citizen because of it, pervaded pretty much everything.

Having said that, it made me bloody tough!