Has Liz Truss said she won't make an announcement on GRA until September?

[happydappy2]

Twitter seems to think so-is it true?

I think the UK could repeal the GRA. Give trans women legal recognition as trans women, and trans men legal recognition as trans men. They will both be protected by the PC of gender reassignment. Any existing GRCs can be grandfathered. Third spaces can be provided alongside women only. This is not impossible.

There'll be some very high level guilt tripping going on.
I hope that one thing the government is watching is the interesting phenomenon of organisations backing away at the mention of the courts. All those assertions (Stonewall law) about children and puberty blockers and safety, no legal issues with women having the rights to single sex spaces removed, not to mention sport (good timing World Rugby) and the NHS changing its guidance on puberty blockers.
While the TRAs continue to froth, it appears that very very slowly, some organisations are beginning to step away from these extremist views as safety, safeguarding and competing rights are finally being spoken about and heard. Whether this government is strong enough to stand up to the pressure I'm not sure. I do hope so.

I'm concerned about the rumours Liz Truss is for the chop

I think that survey was designed by a 12 year old! I enjoyed completing it, but I feel I may have skewed their data somewhat 😳😳

Penny promised an enquiry into the rise in the number of girls believing they are trans, this never happened.....if Liz gets the chop this problem isn’t going to disappear, it’s out in the open now & people are rightly angry.

I am feeling more anxious by the minute. We were so close, it felt like...

@Kit19

hmmmmm that reads as if they will make no changes over the summer...i mean the government is a bit busy right now!

They’re not going to be any less busy come the autumn, with COVID peak 2 in the offing and the wheels about to come off the Brexit train. 🤷‍♂️

Are you not mistaking homosexuality for gender incongruence?

midclegs that survey was terrific fun

The bloody GRA needs repealed or this will never ever end

Perhaps another round of writing to MPs wouldn't go amiss

@Imnobody4

www.politicshome.com/news/article/boris-johnson-promises-ban-on-gay-conversion-therapy Am heartened he states precisely gay conversion therapy. Also includes this on GRA. Not sure what over the summer means. I must admit I'm feeling a bit sick.

Mr Johnson also promised a full update on whether the Government has plans to update the Gender Recognition Act - including whether to allow self-identifiation, which would make it easier for people to change their gender marker on official documents - over the summer.

How much easier can it get to change your SEX marker on official documents? I quite fancy identifying as 67 to get my pension and mooch around all day but...

According to the link where Boris Johnson specifically says gay conversion therapy:

But Liberal Democrat leadership contender Layla Moran accused the Government of "dragging its feet" on the issue, after tabling a motion in Parliament to ban conversion therapy last month which won the backing of 21 MPs.

"No-one should be told that their identity is wrong and needs to be cured," she said.

Why has she changed it to 'identity'?

If they're trying to find a middle ground, would making changing documents easier AND upholding the EA work without chucking women under the bus?

I think the UK could repeal the GRA. Give trans women legal recognition as trans women, and trans men legal recognition as trans men. They will both be protected by the PC of gender reassignment. Any existing GRCs can be grandfathered. Third spaces can be provided alongside women only. This is not impossible.

If TM and TW are already covered by ‘gender reassignment‘ in the Equality Act 2010, what would be the advantages of legal recognition as TW and TM (and would need to do same for NB people?)
How would it be certified? What would be different to GRC?
Could there not just be a legal definition of TM and TW? So that people will know when the EQA protections around reassignment become engaged?

The GRA is out of date and superfluous now. It is no longer fit for purpose. We have same sex marriage now, we have equal pension age. It is ridiculous that we still have an irrevocable state-issued certificate lasting until death, based on people’s subjective personal identity. The detransitioned women speaking up recently show this. There is no revocation mechanism available to rid them of their GRC once they have been given it, having applied in good faith but then changed their mind.

This just shows how poorly thought through and naively drafted the GRC was. The Tories usually want to get rid of outdated unnecessary bureaucracy and red tape. The GRA cert is objectively an irrelevant, unnecessary process now. The GRA should be repealed because it was made to deal with a genuine unfairness about same sex marriage not being available at the time. That has been rightly sorted out years ago.

Pink News is reporting that the interview that Boris Johnson gave earlier today means it will be delayed - or maybe just slipped out during summer recess?

... in an interview with ITV on July 20, Johnson appeared to confirm growing speculation that the GRA results would not be published before Wednesday, saying that the Tories response will be published “over the summer”.

“On the general issue of our response to the Gender Recognition Act, we’ve said that we’ll be responding over the summer and that’s what we’re gonna do,” Johnson said. ...

Oh Pink News can bugger right off.

If it's not tomorrow then it might not be too after the summer. I'm desperate to know too but it's no good speculating. We're just going to have to hold tight.

I'm holding onto the single sex spaces protections and the fact that the Times wouldn't report on something that is so far off-base we end up with a 180 on reform.

I have hope. Liz Truss has daughters. Boris' fiancée and mother of his latest child had a narrow escape from John Worboys. It can't go back to Self ID territory. I was proved wrong on Trump and Brexit though but I don't think this will go the way of the handcart.

They should probably stick to just banning gay conversion therapy. If they extend the ban (as in Canada) to sexual-identity conversion therapy, it could make it difficult (as it did there) for therapists to take a sensible watch-and-wait approach to trans kids, and force them to just offer positive affirmation of whatever the child believes, without questioning too much where it comes from.
Also, since trans identity affirmation can be used as a de facto form of gay conversion therapy, you risk all kinds of contradictions.

@transdimensional

They should probably stick to just banning gay conversion therapy. If they extend the ban (as in Canada) to sexual-identity conversion therapy, it could make it difficult (as it did there) for therapists to take a sensible watch-and-wait approach to trans kids, and force them to just offer positive affirmation of whatever the child believes, without questioning too much where it comes from. Also, since trans identity affirmation can be used as a de facto form of gay conversion therapy, you risk all kinds of contradictions.

Conversion therapy is already effectively banned in the UK. This includes 'conversion therapy' related to gender identity.

www.psychotherapy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/UKCP-Memorandum-of-Understanding-on-Conversion-Therapy-in-the-UK.pdf

For the purposes of this document ’conversion therapy’ is an umbrella term for a therapeutic approach, or any model or individual viewpoint that demonstrates an assumption that any sexual orientation or gender identity is inherently preferable to any other, and which attempts to bring about a change of sexual orientation or gender identity, or seeks to supress an individual’s expression of sexual orientation or gender identity on that basis.

This makes it difficult already for a psychotherapist to take a watch and wait approach.

re comment about Pink News - as they are more likely to be in touch with Government than any of us, its an indication that the story is true about a further delay.

Which is what I thought this thread was about!

I suspect Cummings has set up some algorithm and based on shed loads of emails both from trans activists and gender critical feminists it is seesawing backward and forwards as to which way to go.

I dont think they care either way. They just want the votes and for Boris to come out as somehow both friendly and welcoming to younger people but sufficient hard line for the ERG and followers.

But is the choice was between feminists and queer male activists the Tories will go with the latter.

I must say I find the idea that Prick News are more likely to be in touch with the government hilarious!

There are loads of women, on and off Mumsnet, who have been talking to peers, MPs and the GEO frequently, particularly in the last few months. I would pay more attention to them than Prick News.

Liz Truss gets it.

But is the choice was between feminists and queer male activists the Tories will go with the latter.

I'm not convinced of that. I raised the matter with the Conservative canvasser on the doorstep in the run-up to the GE in December. He was a Tory councillor and knew straight away what my concerns were - he was openly GC. He said even then that the Conservatives knew Self ID was a mess and wanted to kick it into the long grass.

Bear in mind that at that stage, a hung parliament was thought to be the most likely outcome - Corbyn was still a contender then - and Boris was essentially fighting on a Brexit ticket. Also bear in mind that Dominic Cummings once said he has "no time for all this gender identity crap". And finally, bear in mind that the average Conservative voter is older than the average Labour voter and polls consistently show older people are more openly GC. The Tories know their natural voters.

Various groups are lobbying hard that the ban on conversion therapy must also include a ban on gender identity conversion. So many more children who pitch up in a doctor's or therapist's office claiming to be trans after being coached by some YouTuber will end up making irreversible changes to their bodies If this happens it will be a disaster.

I would be quite happy to say that there should be no attempt made to convert someone's gendr identity provided it was also illegal to attempt to convert someone's physical body

To allow physical body conversion to affirm gender identity is wrong

I had a very positive chat with my tory MP on Friday. They really knew what they were talking about - they knew who yaniv was and Karen White, and they said they had grave concerns about mermaids and gender self id. Sounds as though this is more than just a fringe political movement now, and there is a lot of awareness in the right places ....

My MP said they were meeting about it today at another MP's office and said they strongly suspected the government were not going ahead with the reforms....

I think the issue is still in the long grass and will remain there until it cools down a little.

I would not be surprised if Carrie were GC. She was brave throughout the Stephen Warboys affair, she is close to Nimco Ali, and generally seems to know her own mind, whilst keeping her head below the parapet. Dominic Cummings is married to Mary Wakefield who is commissioning editor for the Spectator, known refuge for GC journalists, whilst Andrew Gilligan who wrote some very good GC articles whilst at the Sunday Times, is now a No 10 adviser.

Other than Penny Mordaunt, it is hard to think of a member of the front bench who is obviously GC, and many of the Tory rank and file are clearly not.

Boris just needs to pick the right time. He is dealing with coronavirus, which few Governments have handled well, and with the economic/employment fallout still to come. Brexit is looming on the horizon, and Cummings seems determined to "sort out" the Civil Service. Now is not the time to have a war on woke.

The time may come. There will be court cases, Stonewall continues to overplay their hand and people (including those who traditionally fell under the Stonewall umbrella) are getting tired of the gender bollocks.

(Wfh DH, unusually, left his speaker on, but his microphone off, during an organisation wide "discussion" for international non-binary day. I moved out of earshot but only after the woke vocabulary bingo card was full. As far as I could see, he was not alone in using the time to continue with emails and the occasional phone call. He tells me that research suggests that "diversity training" has very little impact on an individuals views, and indeed may cement resentment. Views are mainly formed from personal experience so capable colleagues who are gay/black/disabled/Muslim are far more influential. Focus really should be on enabling and supporting talent from non-traditional backgrounds.)

I think Boris will move when it is clear that such a move will have popular support. And this happens by women, and others, speaking out.