Identifying as binary

[Flapjak]

Just a thought really, if a person can identify as non binary then it must mean that female people who feel and like all things feminine must be 'binary'. But what if you are a binary female and want to play football or go without make up are you then binary non binary? Bi binary? Or just non binary? As it nothing to do with biological sex just 'things' and 'behaviours' associated with male/female. Which surely means that most / all people then are on a spectrum of non binary.

It’s all a load of nonsense. The whole point about feminism is that women’s lives should not be categorised according to their sex.
Binary can only refer to sex, male or female.

I agree with OP. The nonbinary choice, by necessity, pushes all those who still stay in the category 'women' towards more rigid and restrictive sex roles and stereotypes about gender. And of course most people, I believe, are nonbinary in their interests anyway.

But I have tried to understand if others actually treat someone better if that person transitions from 'woman' to 'nonbinary.' Will the pay be higher? Are people less likely to expect more housework from that person?

I don't know the answer to those questions, but I am skeptical. The most likely change is in the pronouns others are expected to use.

I basically shouted that same thing at my SIL a while back after she insisted to me that most women are ultra feminine and meet most stereotypes and being "non binary" is a rare and special thing (and not made up attention seeking nonsense). I like wearing pastel colours and feminine clothes and I'm a SAHM, but I also have very short hair and I don't shave or wear makeup. I have qualifications in both an arts subject and a stem subject, and have worked in both male and female dominated professions. I like scolding hot curries and mountain climbing and heavy metal and also knitting and dress making and cooking. So what am I?! Answer, an individual who doesn't need labelling and shoving into a stupid fucking box. Just like the other 7 billion people on the planet.

I saw this shared yesterday, I think it's a brilliant piece of satire...either way it's a fantastic piece of writing that uses words that have meanings to produce absolute nonsense.

nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Maverique

I'm female. DP is male. Yesterday he pottered about doing a roast and cleaning the kitchen whilst I fixed and painted the garden gate. We both love football. And he bakes cakes. It's all a load of rubbish.

It's all bollocks. And non-bollocks.

It's all bollocks. And non-bollocks.

Call yourself whatever you like, it doesn't mean anyone has to take any notice.
To me it all feels a bit like attention seeking.
Everyone has chromosomes, you are what they say you are.
However you don't have to conform to norms, you can be attracted to whoever you like. making you straight, lesbian, homosexual, or bisexual. Dress how you like too. I really don't care.

Testing, thanks for that link. I so wish i had the literal balls to also 'identify' as a special person to control others and feel i have an inner uniqueness that is betrayed by my middle aged mumness. I agree its all bollocks/teenage angst/mental health issues, which is ok , live and let live and eventually 'they' will grow up or hopefully get some treatment. What i am struggling to tolerate this in the workplace or when i go out somewhere and am not sure if i can expect to find a man im the female toiletd because he is non binary at the weekends, or in the female showers at the gym . It hasnt happened to me yet, but i do not want it to become a probable possibility and have no means to report it as a sex crime, ie indecent exposure

and if you're a female and identify as non binary, why would you have a compelling need to have a double mastectomy and take hormones to masculinize your body.

Another logic hole like Stonewall's 'you don't have to have dysphoria to be trans...'?

I saw this shared recently. .an excellent article
aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

testing987654321

Very funny, think I'll become Maverique. Always fancied an additional label - Maverique Woman is just grand

I find the concept of ‘non-binary’ ridiculous and more than a little pretentious. The true gender Mavericks are butch women and effeminate men who don’t feel the need to either conform to some gender stereotype or put themselves in any other category than woman or man. Non-binary people are not ‘challenging gender stereotypes’ at all, they’re doing the exact opposite.

It's bizarre. And the idea that it's new is bizarre. People talk about the 70s breaking down stereotypes, well, guess what, even before the 70, or the 60s!, many people did things and had interests that were non-typical for their sex.

My grandfather, who was a pretty manly man, used to wash the kitchen floor on his hands and knees every week, because he didn't like to see his wife do it. And he was very good at ironing. It didn't make him non-binary.

Which surely means that most / all people then are on a spectrum of non binary.

Yep. To insist on having a special label for yourself is utter narcissism.

Aren't non-binaries binary? Because if you're non-binary, you believe there are two kinds of people, binaries and non-binaries.

My very reticent and stern FIL who blushes at the mention of periods also buys me macarons and cuddles my baby for hours.

I must tell him he is non binary.

My husband lifts weights, plays football and also does the dishes every night. I must tell him he is non binary too.

I, however, am completely binary. I care only for shopping, getting my nails done and removing every hair below my eyebrows.

Back in my youth, in the eighties, if you felt you were all special and different from the herd you went to Art School, at least thats what I did. I suppose its a bit expensive these days...

I have great sympathy for young people in distress about their emergent adult body and/or their sexuality and/or the sex-stereotypes of presentation or behaviour (gender roles) that they are consequently expected to fulfil.

People struggling under the burden of distress need abundant talking therapy and and exploration of underlying reasons and the appropriate treatment for that for the anxiety or OCD or depression. As do other kids in distress for unrelated reasons and the underfunding of CAMHS is scandalous.
The rest of the solution is politics. Gender is a trap. Lesbophobia and Homophobia are wrong and need to be actively opposed . Misogyny and sexism are wrong and need to be actively opposed.

Gender requires political dismantling to make a healthy environment for all of us, regardless of our immutable sex. So making up individualistic solutions is both not evidenced to help personal distress, but also, while individuals have no obligations to help others, I think everyone should be aware that adopting a position of ‘I’m a special category, get me out of here’, is likely to makes things worse for others who may also have distress about gender expectations or their emergent adult body or their sexuality. Because it assumes (and encourages others to assume) that those who don’t adopt a ‘get me out of here’ label or who dont seek a medical solution to living in the trap of gender, or to homophobia or to sexism, are happy and content and are not also struggling in the trap.

Also, I think everyone in society does have a political or ethical responsibility not to perpetuate lesbophobia and misogyny, homophobia and sexism, and so we all need to consider where our personal solutions to the gender trap put us in discharging that responsibility. Obviously (bearing in mind structural inequality which is widening) there are reasons that make individual more or less able to act on this responsibility in their personal lives and I appreciate that. However, it does seem like we often tend to be talking about quite privileged people with lots of options and capital of various kinds taking an ‘identity’ approach to getting themselves (supposedly) free of the trap.

So I hope that (when well enough and with as much as possible else being equal) everyone who believes in individualistic approaches will also bring their talents and thoughtfulness and sensitivity to help to dismantle sexism, homophobia and gender stereotypes for the benefit of all of us.