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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
MaMaLa321 · 19/07/2020 12:14

thanks everybody. That's very informative. It comes to something when I come to MN for my news.

OP posts:
Michelleoftheresistance · 19/07/2020 12:21

It wouldn't matter if those figures were real. No matter how many people are dying to hurl out female only spaces, the law protects sex based interests of females, this would abysmally discriminate against and fuck over a significant number of females, and they have rights too.

An overwhelming majority favouring a bloody awful, morally wrong law doesn't mean that law should be made.

Crackerofdoom · 19/07/2020 12:25

I think it is less representative of how people feel and more representative of the majority of people's ignorance on the subject.

Should people who are trans be discriminated against? Most people would say of course not.

It is only when you get into the practical questions, the reality of how this would be implemented, that people are forced to look at how this would actually look in reality.

Most people don't ever look that hard at the issue.

testing987654321 · 19/07/2020 12:27

An overwhelming majority favouring a bloody awful, morally wrong law doesn't mean that law should be made.

Not snappy as such, but I think I want this on a t-shirt

UglyGlassVase · 19/07/2020 12:29

Public consultations are a load of shit anyway. I went to one about 10 years ago, I was paid £40 (which was significant money for me at the time). It was about cuts to the fire service and was "hosted" by an "independent" facilitator. It was basically a sales pitch as to why we should all vote for the proposed cuts.

For example they showed us a video of a new type of fire service motorbike that one firefighter could put out a fire on this motorbike and therefore many fires no longer needed a crew to attend. That was just one of many things.

I have never trusted any public consultation since.

ConcreteUnderpants · 19/07/2020 12:36

And by asking people who have no real idea of the consequences of self id.
You only have to look at the AIBU pages to see posters with no actual clue of the repercussions of this.

Thinkingabout1t · 19/07/2020 12:37

Mamala321 I was just about to say the same thing! I realised as I was reading this thread, that I find out more news and current affairs from Mumsnet than any other source.

It's not only the OP and links but the well-informed comments that give me a good all-round picture of events.

Specifically on the erosion of women's rights, Peaktrans.org is also a valuable news site. And transcrimeuk.com keeps tabs on the crimes that we're told don't happen and are not a problem.

I have to remind myself to look at the MSM sites in case I've missed anything vital. I rarely have.

Aesopfable · 19/07/2020 12:45

If you compared the GRA to an airplane; if 600 passengers sitting on the plane believe it to be safe would you still fly on it if one person points out a critical flaw?

Stealhsquirrelnutkin · 19/07/2020 15:18

I think that they are referring to the results of this pol that YouGov did on behalf of Pink news, which showed the vast majority of respondents agreed with the statement that 'a person should be able to self identify as a gender different to the one they were born in.'

Which goes to show that people in the UK are pretty tolerant, and transphobia is exceptional rather than the norm. The British public does not want people to be discriminated against if they choose to dress unconventionally, and we aren't bothered if some people feel a compulsion to perform the stereotypes associated with gender.

What is very striking, and highly educational, is how they have focused on the response to the initial vague statement, and pointedly ignored the responses showing that nobody is in favour of the kind of self id they have been lobbying so hard to push into law, beneath the radar of public awareness.

If you look at the answers to statements about the process of legal gender recognition, you will see that only 2 of the 12 categories of people polled in the UK were in favour of making it easier for people to legally change their sex (just 18-24yr olds and people who say they vote Labour), and none of the 12 groups was overwhelmingly in favour of allowing them to do so without a doctor's approval and having spent 2 years as their preferred gender.

So when transgenderists claim "On 14th June 2020, the Sunday Times reported that, despite 70% of responses to the recent consultation on the reform of the Gender Recognition Act being in favour of self-identification, the UK Government intends to scrap the GRA reform and roll back the hard-won rights of trans and non-binary people" they are being exceedingly disingenuous.

The majority don't give a toss about people choosing their own preferred gender and performing the related stereotypes, but they are firmly against the proposed changes to the gender recognition act that Stonewall, pink news and the rest of the trans lobby are still pushing for, and in completely in favour of the governments decision to scrap the proposed reforms.

Have a look at the results for a quick masterclass in lies, damn lies and statistics.

Notice too how nobody thinks it is fair to allow males to compete in female sports, and how the question about allowing transwomen in women's changing rooms doesn't mention genitals. I can't remember which women's group it was that paid for an independent poll of UK attitudes a while back, but do remember, very clearly, how the number of people in favour of transwomen in women's sex segregated spaces plummeted once the concept of female penis was explained.

Download and save the graphic. You too might find it comes in handy at a later date when you need to shed light on what the British public really thinks, compared to what the Stonewall and Pink news propaganda machine wants you to think that they think.

70% in favour of self-id
Gingerkittykat · 19/07/2020 15:25

Here is a further breakdown on the polling results in the survey commissioned by Prick News.

Only 36% of women agree that TWAW and all groups are opposed to making legal changes to the current GRA despite saying they accept self ID, maybe they don't know what self ID actually means.

Gingerkittykat · 19/07/2020 15:26

Also, overall people don't want TW in women's changing rooms, sports and toilets.

CharlieParley · 19/07/2020 17:07

Please note that on that graph a light green tick does not mean a majority of the people was in favour, but only that of those who did express an opinion, a majority was in favour (Yougov are calling this a plurality.)

I'm not sure this is the clearest way of representing the data. First of all, if you don't look too closely, it is easy to read the green ticks as representing a large majority in favour (green) and a small majority in favour (light green).

And if you take a closer look at the figures, I'm not even sure some of the ticks (whether red or green) are justified - for instance, regarding the unqualified question about males who identify as trans accessing women's toilets, YouGov is showing the opinion of men is in favour with a light green tick.

The actual numbers are
38% for
37% against
25% don't know

In surveys of this size, the margin of error is 3%.

In my view, it would have been more accurate to visualise this result with the grey circle as a tie.

(It is quite normal when reporting on survey results to exclude the don't knows and just represent the opinion of those who did make up their minds, but I guess here too many people are undecided.)

ErrolTheDragon · 19/07/2020 17:48
  • The actual numbers are 38% for 37% against 25% don't know

In surveys of this size, the margin of error is 3%.

In my view, it would have been more accurate to visualise this result with the grey circle as a tie.*

Yes - with a 3% margin of error, a 1% difference is of no real statistical significance.

Wolfgirrl · 19/07/2020 17:53

Where was the survey actually accessible? How was it publicised?

Chersfrozenface · 19/07/2020 20:40

I was once told by a civil servant with a fairly high-level job in a national administration that a consultation is an exercise through which a government collects views it can then ignore.

Gingerkittykat · 19/07/2020 20:41

YouGov is a reputable polling company, you sign up and they send surveys by email. In this case, it looks like they have sent them out to a large range of people, other times they will target people in a particular demographic.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/07/2020 20:44

It's because the consultation was brigaded, which the government have apparently realized.

Griefmonster · 19/07/2020 20:51

@Chersfrozenface is right (to a point)!:

I was once told by a civil servant with a fairly high-level job in a national administration that a consultation is an exercise through which a government collects views it can then ignore.

I think it would be more accurate to say (in the main): a public consultation is an exercise through with the government finds out what shit they will have slung at them when they do the thing thet already know they want to do...

SetYourselfOnFire · 19/07/2020 21:36

They're such liars. I'm unaware of any advocacy group that has ever been this much a pack of lying liars, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

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