Transgender people twice as likely to be victim of crime

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020

This publication reports on experiences of crime by the victim’s gender identity for the first time, after a new question on gender identity was trialed in the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) from 1 October 2019 to 18 March 2020. The data show those people whose gender identity is different from their sex registered at birth were twice as likely (28%) to be a victim of crime (excluding fraud) than those whose gender identity is the same as their sex registered at birth (14%) in the year ending March 2020.

Do the figures include the “non-crime crime” hate incidents?

Christians were less likely to have experienced crime than atheists - how does this work?

They have extrapolated that figure from a base of 63 so it's reliability is questionable.

Does this include the crimes of misgendering or wrongthink?

34000 people surveyed. How many transgender people do they get in that survey?

I don't think it's unlikely that transgender people suffer more crime. People in general are bigoted bastards. The report says that 21% of gay people reported a crime, 25% of transgender. Given that the younger you are, the more likely you are to be a victim of crime, and that transgender people are probably younger on average, I think that its likely that there are a similar amount of violent transphobes as violent homophobes. I think it's probable that they are actually the same people. I also think it's very unlikely that many of them are middle aged women hanging out on Mumsbet.

I'd love to have a look at the confounding variables.

Mental health
Sex at birth
Age
Trauma history
Occupation ( notably sex work)

Answer my own question 63 individuals identified as trans , about 0.2%, giving crime figures lower reliability for this group

high rate for lesbians also , really shows how intolerant a society we are in, and extreme evidence in a way of how strictly gender norms are enforced

I think its interesting. Its not ok for trans people to be victims of crime at such a high rate. However, i feel it will be hard to establish why. A few things spring to mind, first is how is rape recorded. Its almost legal! So are you only a victim of crime when conviction is achieved - in which case female victims of crime will be hugely under represented. The other is the trans figure was most close to the homosexual figure. It does make me wonder if homophobia is part of the issue. I assume (and it is an assumption) that the perpatrators are mainly men? So i think we need to look at men to reduce crime against trans people.

Need to know what they are clashing as crimes.
There was a massive push by the TRAs to report anything and everything to boost hate crime stats.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I'd love to have a look at the confounding variables.

Mental health
Sex at birth
Age
Trauma history
Occupation ( notably sex work)

Me too MrsTP

I'd be willing to bet that lifestyle & behaviour has an association, possibly more so than gender identity.

Risk taking behaviour is most common in young males.

I think it's plausible. And I think crimes and criminals should be dealt with.
I just don't see how it's an argument that you can change sex. Or why it makes it ok for men to use women's spaces.
Stop expecting women to act as human shields.

63 people is not a big enough sample to get meaningful data.

Risk taking behaviour is most common in young males.

Could I ask whether you feel that 'risk taking' means an individual is in some way responsible for being a victim of crime? Not necessarily entirely.

I've seen trans people be harassed in the street. I think this stat is plausible, though I agree that the sample size and lack of info on data makes it pretty worthless in itself. Still, I would be surprised if trans people don't suffer from aggressive, angry, violent men, because they challenge their ideas of straight masculinity; I doubt those men have paused to consider that believing gender roles to be determinative isn't really a challenge, because those inclined to violence over bigotry are likely to be generally hard of thinking.

You can defend women's rights, and recognise that we are absolutely reasonable in advocating for ourselves and don't have to be human collateral here, without needing to deny that trans people have genuine struggles too. It's the demand that we sacrifice our own interests to assuage those struggles that pisses me off - but I very much agree that there should be more and better provision specifically for trans people, and that it's unacceptable for anyone to suffer from real discrimination and abuse.

@wellbehavedwomen

I've seen trans people be harassed in the street. I think this stat is plausible, though I agree that the sample size and lack of info on data makes it pretty worthless in itself. Still, I would be surprised if trans people don't suffer from aggressive, angry, violent men, because they challenge their ideas of straight masculinity; I doubt those men have paused to consider that believing gender roles to be determinative isn't really a challenge, because those inclined to violence over bigotry are likely to be generally hard of thinking.

You can defend women's rights, and recognise that we are absolutely reasonable in advocating for ourselves and don't have to be human collateral here, without needing to deny that trans people have genuine struggles too. It's the demand that we sacrifice our own interests to assuage those struggles that pisses me off - but I very much agree that there should be more and better provision specifically for trans people, and that it's unacceptable for anyone to suffer from real discrimination and abuse.

Did you know that the people harassed on the street were actually trans? Or did you assume by looking at them? Have you seen other people harassed on the street too?

Under the current definition of trans, many people are considered to be trans but you wouldn’t realise e.g. gender free, agender, identifies as a woman or man without any modification to how they present.

Say, if I was reporting a crime, and was asked to report my gender (and not sex) and stated “none” due to not identifying with oppressive stereotypes, that crime would be reported as being against a trans person instead of against a woman.

So, the stats (and the anecdata) will be skewed because people still think that trans means “obviously trans”.

That's really a shame for transgender people. What has it got to do with feminism?

I would be interested to see the same sort of stats but turned around to show how many people were victims of crimes committed by individuals whose gender identity was different from their sex at birth... wonder how keen they would be to scale up the figures from a similarly small sample!

This is partly because I remember seeing figures that transwomen were more likely to be murderers than murdered in th UK. Can’t remember the source for the star unfortunately as would be interested to know if it was an anomaly for a particular year or a more stable trend.

Will also be interested to see how crime stats are different this year as there has been an increase in domestic violence but fewer people out and about committing crimes...

I also think it's very unlikely that many of them are middle aged women hanging out on Mumsbet.

Can I put ten quid on RowlingForPM in the three o'clock at Ascot?

One way to (very imperfectly) judge the reliability of self-reported crimes is to compare them to percentages in the most serious categories which are reported to the police. It would seem to make sense that the two should correlate, i.e., groups which report being victims of more crimes in general should also show up as having higher rates of the crimes of the most violent sort.

@BaronessSlighterThanThou

I also think it's very unlikely that many of them are middle aged women hanging out on Mumsbet.

Can I put ten quid on RowlingForPM in the three o'clock at Ascot?

Mumsbet is giving 6/5 odds. Remember, when the fun stops, stop.

I think I had fat fingers last night!

A quick glance suggests to me this is about recorded crime. (Maybe wrong).

If so

Most rapes and DV are male in female violence and not reported.

An action which is recorded as a ‘hate crime’ perpetrated against TW is not recorded as a ‘hate crime’ if perpetrated against women. Women literally don’t count.

Systemic structure of statistics gathering is not equitable.

The over representation will be hate crimes. Which cannot be committed against women. Or indeed against men. Only against trans people.

And we know that the hate crime can consist of a limerick or saying ‘you are not a woman’.