Tim Farron, ex- Lib Dem leader backs JKR

[Xanthangum]

"Take the recent Twitter storm surrounding JK Rowling. The first people to defend her should be the liberals. Not because they agree with her — they may think she is utterly wrong — but because liberalism fights for the rights of those with different views to be heard. It takes time to listen, seeks to understand other perspectives and only then — if both sides maintain their positions — agree to disagree respectfully."

Well.

From here: medium.com/@tim_farron/this-liberal-will-defend-real-liberalism-f45aa689cfbf

@Kit19

There’s no way he didn’t know he’d have to issue a grovelling apology given how much the LibDems are dominated by TRA

I find it interesting therefore that he wrote about it at all.....

That's my take home from it too tbh.

It was making the point that not everyone in the party is a dickhead. I think he was hoping a few more people would back him up.

Trouble is that ship sailed a long time ago and anyone who was of that mindset gave up on the LDs a long time ago.

@TeaAndStrumpets

Thank God the Lib Dems are toast, politically speaking. Can you imagine what horrors they would inflict if they had a scrap of influence?

Trouble is, there is still a chance they will get a shot in a coalition government and you know what their first demands for that would be.

I've found it astonishing that, in recent years, the Liberals have become so... well... unliberal.

I remember Ben Elton's routine years ago:
"You could be Tory, you could be Labour, you could be Liberal - you'd be a prat, but you could be....
...oh! Round of applause there! That's obviously the Liberals: 'I think he's got a perfect right to say that, actually!'"

I suppose I should say 'Liberal Democrats' since the Liberal party are still in existence and I believe they still firmly believe in free speech.

That's a good point, Kit. Tim Farron is one person you can see practicing in his own life that there is a difference between private beliefs and the law of the land.

I'm a paid up LD and I struggle with their TRA line. They only got my vote in the last election because of a local LD activist who is taking up the GC cudgels (she has nothing to prove and no political ambitions left to fulfil).

I was going to vote for Ed Davey on the grounds that Tim Farron backs him and he's not Layla Moran (and in an even choice I would vote for the woman). I now think I should leave the LDs and spoil my next ballot paper. Labour have so far to come back from Corbyn, and BoJo makes me feel queasy.

It's so depressing. I haven't the time, energy, or political savvy to get properly involved, but it comes to something when only the bloody Tories know what a woman is.

@FloralBunting

This is what liberalism is supposed to be and always was before. Farron knows this better than most, given how he was cancelled so comprehensively for his personal beliefs on equal marriage. He held a classic liberal position of believing something privately based in his religion, but understanding that his personal beliefs could not override the consensus of society, which had been reached via rational debate and evidence.

I don't even agree with his personal beliefs about equal marriage rights, but I still thought he was a man of integrity who did not seek the detriment of anyone in his politics. But he thought-crimed and if you saw how his personal beliefs were utterly unacceptable even though he was a decent sort, and you didn't see the obsessive cancel culture witch hunts of today coming, then I don't know what to tell you.

I agree completely

Tim Farron is my MP. He has held on here for a long time. I am not sure about him but in our area he is the only decent choice. I am glad he is supporting JKR but I don't want to be told to be nice! I've generally agreed with LD in the past, but they've really lost it in the last few years. I was alarmed by him getting thought-crimed; I don't agree with his belief but he shouldn't be pilloried for a privately held idea.

I knew I was right to defend him over the gay marriage thing! He is religious so he doesn’t personally believe in gay marriage but he also doesn’t think that his personal beliefs should come in the way of gay people getting married. Which seemed reasonable to me (atheist, bisexual, fan of gay marriage, not a Lib Dem voter) but they had his head for it at the time.

@TheMarzipanDildo I also did not like how he was attacked for the gay marriage thing. I am 100% pro gay marriage, but he has a right to his own opinion especially when it doesn't interfere with his public life.

The fact that he was pilloried just shows how small the worlds of some of these people are. Have they never met anyone from a different culture? Because I would say the vast majority of the world would not tolerate gay marriage on any level.

I've posted this on another thread but worth putting here as well. This is Ed Davey's response to an email I sent him. He was someone I held in reasonably high regard, sadly no more.

I thought Tim Farron entirely humane and measured in his attitude to same sex marriage. I don't share his religious views, but I respect his right to hold them. (My gay brother also doesn't approve of same sex marriage, though he was in a long term loving relationship until his partner sadly died, but that's another story.)

Thank you for your recent email.

Liberal Democrats have long stood up for minority rights and will continue to do so – and this includes supporting trans rights. I’m proud that Liberal Democrats exist to safeguard a free and fair society and we want to enable everyone to have the opportunity to be themselves. We are very clear that supporting trans rights does not contradict supporting women: the law already makes clear that trans women are women.

Liberal Democrats do not condone the invasion of women-only spaces by men, a proposal that is not being considered in any way. However, the Liberal Democrats acknowledge that trans women are women, so are fully welcome and entitled to use single sex spaces. Although I know some party members disagree with that position, it is an established policy that I am determined to uphold.

It is also worth reminding ourselves of our proposals. All individuals who receive a Gender Recognition Certificate would have to be 18 or older. We would also keep the requirements for a legal declaration that someone intends to live permanently in that gender until death, and proof that this person has lived in that gender for at least 2 years in order to receive a Gender Recognition Certificate.

I hope this helps to clarify my position. Thanks again for getting in touch.

As far as I can tell this outrageous opinion from Tim Farron is the last straw for many LibDem TRAs. If his head isn't on a spike by sundown they are off! Tearing up their membership cards and they are OFF in a huff (flounce as modelled by Sarah Browm when the party took in ex-Tory Philip Lee last year...)

@Xanthangum

As far as I can tell this outrageous opinion from Tim Farron is the last straw for many LibDem TRAs. If his head isn't on a spike by sundown they are off! Tearing up their membership cards and they are OFF in a huff (flounce as modelled by Sarah Browm when the party took in ex-Tory Philip Lee last year...)

That would be brilliant if Tim stuck it out and they tantrumed off.

Sadly I think this is wishful thinking.

@borntobequiet

I've posted this on another thread but worth putting here as well. This is Ed Davey's response to an email I sent him. He was someone I held in reasonably high regard, sadly no more.

I thought Tim Farron entirely humane and measured in his attitude to same sex marriage. I don't share his religious views, but I respect his right to hold them. (My gay brother also doesn't approve of same sex marriage, though he was in a long term loving relationship until his partner sadly died, but that's another story.)

Thank you for your recent email.

Liberal Democrats have long stood up for minority rights and will continue to do so – and this includes supporting trans rights. I’m proud that Liberal Democrats exist to safeguard a free and fair society and we want to enable everyone to have the opportunity to be themselves. We are very clear that supporting trans rights does not contradict supporting women: the law already makes clear that trans women are women.

Liberal Democrats do not condone the invasion of women-only spaces by men, a proposal that is not being considered in any way. However, the Liberal Democrats acknowledge that trans women are women, so are fully welcome and entitled to use single sex spaces. Although I know some party members disagree with that position, it is an established policy that I am determined to uphold.

It is also worth reminding ourselves of our proposals. All individuals who receive a Gender Recognition Certificate would have to be 18 or older. We would also keep the requirements for a legal declaration that someone intends to live permanently in that gender until death, and proof that this person has lived in that gender for at least 2 years in order to receive a Gender Recognition Certificate.

I hope this helps to clarify my position. Thanks again for getting in touch.

I know gaslighting is overused, but that email...