House of Commons Library Gender recognition and the rights of transgender people 16/07/2020

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Probably of interest....

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8969/

I've not read it at all yet, but wanted to flag up

@FOIrequester

I downloaded the original earlier. Section 5 about children was originally 7 pages long, and is now a single page.

In this era of the memory hole I have started downloading documents as soon as I see them and saving web pages.

Top work! My old laptop saved downloaded documents but I've got a new one and I've got no idea where or how to look to see if the original one saved this afternoon.

I have both versions, if anyone wants copies drop me a DM.

Jesus Christ. That's all I can say.

Bloody hell, no flies on you lot!

That was a quick reply to you @mejon. Let us know what happens.

I've had very very little to do with HoC library briefings in the past (contributed to one once ), but they're regarded very highly as a resource by all flavours of MPs. They're usually well researched and not influenced by third parties. I suspect using the phrase 'observed' at birth could be judged to be them not being impartial; 'assigned' much as we hate it is in common use.

I'd be cautiously pleased they're responding and editing things very quickly tbh - they'll be checking and should be keen to remove inaccuracies, though time will tell.

@OHolyJesus - I think we can assume that they've deleted all the contentious references. I'll definitely update if I get a further response or an acknowledgement of what steps they've taken.

Top work to the quick of the mark downloaders and archivers.

I'm glad the information has been removed but surprised that it appeared in the first place - surely the news that these guides have been withdrawn by so many councils would have been flagged up somewhere?

I think this just shows how effectively the media have been silenced on this. Has there been any press coverage at all?

The link to the Wrexham guidelines still works, although it’s not on the Wrexham Council site, which should have been a cause to check whether it had been withdrawn.

The link to the Welsh Government's Transgender Action Plan is to the copy supplied as a response to one of my FOI requests (gov.wales/atisn13341). Although the Welsh government told me that they weren't going to withdraw this document, it disappeared from their website following my FOI requests about the Equality Impact Assessment. Again, because this document is no longer on the main Welsh Government site, there should have been some checks made to see whether it had been withdrawn.

@mejon

Interesting.... I emailed the address at the end of the document late this afternoon after noting that on page 4 (the original page 4!) that they cite that the Transgender Guides issued by both Cornwall and Wrexham County Councils are considered as examples of 'best practice'. I informed them that these Guides, along with many others had been withdrawn very recently. I received an automatic reply saying that the email would be dealt with within a week. Then a further email appeared saying it had been forwarded to the authors of the paper, then within 30 minutes or so, saying they were 'looking into the matter'.

I'm glad the information has been removed but surprised that it appeared in the first place - surely the news that these guides have been withdrawn by so many councils would have been flagged up somewhere?

Well done.

I glanced through it quickly, earlier, and was pleased it had David Davis's comments, at length. That seemed progress - at least the silencing of women was acknowledged. And the Civitas study, plus some really good pieces, were cited as sources.

Reading it through more slowly tonight (I downloaded both versions)... it's anything but even-handed. They removed the pages of advice because they've been successfully challenged as unlawful, and you pointed that out. They'd lauded them as best practice, before.

Others have noted the firmly approving reference to Stonewall (who train just about all universities and every branch of government, as well as most corporations) and the side-eye with which they refer to Fair Play For Women.

Says it all, that an organisation advocating for trans people is paid by the state to tell them what to think, while grassroots organisations run on a shoestring to defend women's rights are given short shrift. Tell me again: who are the most marginalised people in this scenario?

I suspect using the phrase 'observed' at birth could be judged to be them not being impartial; 'assigned' much as we hate it is in common use.

But 'assigned' is not a neutral expression. There is a reason why it was removed from the NHS gender dysphoria pages, and this report should reflect that. NHS has also removed the link to WPATH guidelines, but they are referenced in the report as best practice for adolescent trans care?!

I've had a further email thanking me for raising the matter. They

"are in the process of updating the briefing to include the legal challenges to the guidance. In the meantime we've removed that section. We hope to have the new version in place by the end of today."

I'm impressed at how quickly they've responded tbh - I didn't expect to receive an answer at all as it said at the end of the briefing paper that they only respond to MPs or members of their staff.

@FOIrequester - interesting that you say the link to the Wrexham document still works. It's the same here. I've been checking periodically since I had confirmation from the Ed.Auth. to say they were withdrawing it immdediately, but the link still has pride of place on the front page of DD1's school website

@ThePurported

I suspect using the phrase 'observed' at birth could be judged to be them not being impartial; 'assigned' much as we hate it is in common use.

But 'assigned' is not a neutral expression. There is a reason why it was removed from the NHS gender dysphoria pages, and this report should reflect that. NHS has also removed the link to WPATH guidelines, but they are referenced in the report as best practice for adolescent trans care?!

I realise that. This is what happens when words are amended to become weapons. Whichever one you use places you firmly on one side or the other.

Please email and correct them re the NHS reference - it sounds as if they're willing to amend very quickly.

interesting that you say the link to the Wrexham document still works. It's the same here. I've been checking periodically since I had confirmation from the Ed.Auth. to say they were withdrawing it immdediately, but the link still has pride of place on the front page of DD1's school website

After Denbighshire council said they had withdrawn their Transgender Policy for schools, they removed it from their own website. I asked them to confirm whether all schools in the county had been informed about the withdrawal of this policy and they said they had.

It's still on some school websites, though. These two came up on the first page of a web search.

www.rhylhigh.denbighshire.sch.uk/assets/gender-identity-policy-and-implementation-guidance-(1).pdf

www.stasaphvpschool.org.uk/perch/resources/gender-identity-and-implementation-guidance-policy-v2.pdf

Hoc library have replied on twitter to a trans activist asking why it has been edited. The thread also includes links to the original & revised documents as Google docs.

twitter.com/commonslibrary/status/1284126762004353024

HoC Library is normally pretty good about showing versions of documents
but the experience of COVID guidance shows us that revisionism is the order of the day now

well done to the downloaders

Presumably this has been produced by civil servants. Wonder if it's worth raising issues with MPs.

janeclarejones.com/2020/07/17/gender-recognition-and-the-rights-of-transgender-people-a-response-to-the-commons-briefing-paper/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That's an excellent response from hatpinwoman. Thanks for posting the link

Top work to the quick of the mark downloaders and archivers. Yes all of you contacting the Commons library office. This is really important to get right, MPs make the law on these issues and they really trust these briefings.

Lots of the posts interest me, but it is the work you are doing that I find really compelling. I do not, now, have the capacity to be a big part of this debate (though the mental faculties are holding up well) but I can cheer on those of you who are digging deep.

I will contribute by writing letters, encouraging and passing on whatever information I can, to those in my circle, who haven't yet caught up

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1284757886632169472.html
From Maya, well worth reading the whole thread.
This, in the House of Commons Library Briefing is shocking. "Legal commentators have expressed concern" ... That the Equality Act is being interpreted as allowing males to be simply excluded from group counselling for female victims of sexual assault commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brief…

They think women who have been traumatised by male violence should have their boundaries pushed before they can get help. They think the professionals meant to help them should be forced to first ask them if they could be inclusive of a vulnerable male ...

How on earth did this get written and signed off? (by how many people?) Who are these legal commentators? That part of the briefing is written by @dougpyper - he is a researcher with knowledge of employment law. He turned to Blackstone's Guide to the Equality Act

Under the section about definition of gender reassignment, the following example is given: "Example: A person who was born physically female decides to spend the rest of his life as a man. He starts and continues to live as a man. He decides not to seek medical advice as he successfully passes as a man without the need for any medical intervention. He would be protected as someone who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment."
Interesting that they use FtM example here. Interesting that I got deleted for discussing and suggesting possible implications :)

New version is now out.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8969/CBP-8969.pdf

The Cornwall schools guidance is still included. I thought this had been withdrawn.

I believe that Cornwall have refused to withdraw their Guidance, so far. But the reference to Wrexham's has been taken out - and there is a section early on about the history of the paper that mentions the Oxfordshire CC "guidance" court case and the consequent withdrawals by some councils.