YouGov Poll in The Times

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If there's already another thread on this, please let me know and I'll ask for this one to be deleted.

There's an article in The Times today. Sorry, I've never been able to do a share token.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28-of-britons-back-easing-rules-on-gender-change-j2j3qkbqf

It cites a YouGov Poll done in late June - the same time as the Pink News one on gender - and yet the stats seem to be way off, so I presume it's a different one? The Pink News one apparently found that 50% are in favour of self id, but The Times here states:

"In an online YouGov poll of 1,688 adults in late June 28 per cent agreed that it should be easier for people to change their legal gender, with 47 per cent against. There was less support when respondents were asked about changing the process for obtaining a gender recognition certificate. At present this requires the applicant to have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, to have lived as that gender for two years and to commit to doing so for life. It also needs approval from a panel.

When asked if a doctor’s approval should no longer be required 16 per cent agreed and 63 per cent did not. The figures were almost the same for the two-year requirement."

It goes on to say:
"More people supported than opposed trans people’s right in principle to access to single-sex spaces, but this was reversed when asked whether this should apply to those who have not had gender reassignment surgery."

(Gender reassignment surgery is obviously vague. Somebody could claim to have had it for facial feminisation, not necessarily genital surgery. I presume the respondents saw it as the latter.)

I wondered if this poll is a different one to the Pink News one that has been heralded by Owen Jones as 50% supporting self id, and especially women wanting it!

When I went on the YouGov site, the screenshot was the only thing I found for the Pink News survey.

Here’s a shareToken. You click on the envelope share icon, then it creates a draft email with the link & you can copy it from there.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/947164e4-c6cb-11ea-927d-8ef16d90d3be?shareToken=ba400383b2f6450e70cf8e90c7345186

A poll of 1688 people in a country of 65 million of whom only a tiny proportion are signed up to YouGov. I'm signed up to YouGov and I never get these kinds of questions.

I wonder if they had phrased the question differently what the real answers would have been.

Share token

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/947164e4-c6cb-11ea-927d-8ef16d90d3be?shareToken=4a10b2d6ad63c8c07658abdcdf772fe6

It’s interesting how much agreement to TWAW changes when people realise what it means.

How many of those targeted to fill in penis new's survey do you think were 'self identifying' women or trans or simply misogynist. Of course it's going to be bloody biased. They hate non ejaculators.

Thank you, Empress. I'd attempted to get one a few times before and always failed so assumed my account was limited or something. Was clearly me just being an I.T. idiot...

So basically the general public is “oh yes of course we should be kind, after all these ppl have gone through years of surgery & hormes and.....wait what???? you mean no surgery or anything is required beyond saying ‘I identify as a woman’ are you mad?? of course that changes everything”

@Kit19

So basically the general public is “oh yes of course we should be kind, after all these ppl have gone through years of surgery & hormes and.....wait what???? you mean no surgery or anything is required beyond saying ‘I identify as a woman’ are you mad?? of course that changes everything”

Exactly. It's a perfect example of people not having a clue what they're even voting for. A situation deliberately engineered by organisations like Stonewall who knew they had to force all this stuff through quickly and quietly.

Anyone have any idea who commissioned the poll? Seems as if someone wanted to counter the Pink News report.

Over and over again though, it is demonstrated that the changes are deeply unpopular with the wider population whenever a clear explanation is given. I hope the government holds the line.

Related thread on the Pink News poll done at the same time:

Owen Jones says 57% of women support Self ID www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3969254-Owen-Jones-says-57-of-women-support-Self-ID

I hope someone who hasn't been blocked by him sends him that new poll. Disingenuous little git that he is.

It goes to show that the general public still doesn't realise that the vast majority of transwomen have a penis. According to the GIRES charity, only 5% of transwomen have had surgery to remove their penis.

Understandably, most of us don't feel all that comfortable bringing up genitalia in our day to day conversations. However, I think in this instance it's vital that we get this message out there every time we discuss the topic.

These polls really really need to define their terms.

I used to think that a transwoman was a woman who was trans ie a biological woman who identified as a man. I'm sure I can't be the only one?

I'm sure that polls where the terms are clearly laid out have fairly strikingly different results.

Have a look at this, the questions are asked in a different way, spelling out what Self ID actually means. There is a marked decrease in support when people understand what is being proposed.

wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question/

A poll of 1688 people in a country of 65 million of whom only a tiny proportion are signed up to YouGov. I'm signed up to YouGov and I never get these kinds of questions.

You actually need fewer responses than you'd expect, and results are usually adjusted to represent UK demographics, though in terms of online surveys the people not included are those most excluded and perhaps less likely to agree with self ID.

Using an adult population of about 55m and a confidence level of 95%, I.e. you can be 95% confident that this survey represents the whole population, which is fairly standard for these surveys, the margin of error is probably about 2.5%, I.e. the actual results are within 2.5% either side of the figure given.

I did a YouGov poll a couple of days ago which included questions on this subject. So look out for more poll results soon. Needless to say my responses were GC.

You just ask people if a man self identifying as a woman with no surgery should be able to undress beside their 12 year old daughter in the swimming pool changing rooms.

Simple and to the point.

[quote Starlightisthebestlight]Have a look at this, the questions are asked in a different way, spelling out what Self ID actually means. There is a marked decrease in support when people understand what is being proposed.

wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question/[/quote]
Exactly! How questions are framed is everything.