IPSOS poll: 51% comfortable in GP transgender, 47% confortable if PM transgender and ...

[stumbledin]

Biological sex and gender identity

Regarding the question often at the centre of trans rights debates, public opinion falls more on the side of gender identity as separate from biological sex. Just over half (54%) of the public think gender identity doesn’t have to be directly linked to biological sex. This is compares with three in 10 (30%) who think gender and biological sex are always linked, while 14% don’t know. Women are more likely to think that gender can be separate from biological sex – with 59% thinking this compared with just 49% of men.

Opinion is split regarding the progression of transgender rights.

A third (33%) believe transgender rights haven’t gone far enough. Yet, one in five think transgender rights have gone too far in Britain (19%), and another one in five say they have gone as far as they should (21%) (a quarter say they don’t know).

Four in ten (38%) support the rights of transgender people to use public facilities that match their gender identity (e.g. toilets or changing rooms), while a quarter oppose this (25%). Women are more supportive of transgender rights to use public facilities that match their gender identity compared with men (43% vs 33%) ).

www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/majority-britons-say-transgender-people-face-discrimination-britain

Four in ten (38%) support the rights of transgender people to use public facilities that match their gender identity (e.g. toilets or changing rooms), while a quarter oppose this (25%). Women are more supportive of transgender rights to use public facilities that match their gender identity compared with men (43% vs 33%) ).

Do they define transgender and if so how?

I think most people define transgender as old school transexuals or those planning on having medical intervention to treat/alleviate gender dysphoria.

I assume most of the public are unaware of the broadness of Stonewall’s transgender definition which includes any adult male who says they are female, cross dressers etc.

Question - do you think any adult male with a penis should be able to use female single sex facilities such as changing rooms and toilets if they identify as a woman?

Answer - a greatly increased % = No.

wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question

This indicates people's beliefs better

Unfortunately most of the MSN will use IPSOS.

And agree I very much doubt that the survey was properly worded and / or had proper briefing introduction.

They hardly ever define what they mean by transgender.

Any definition of transgender which is narrower than "a transgender person is anyone who says they are" is transphobic. But of course, the public in general don't know that.

If you put the percentages together, a higher percentage of ppl think trans rights have gone far enough/too far, than think they need to go further... even without a clear definition of “transgender” if we’re going by Referendum/brexit margin principles, that would indicate to me that things should stay as they are?

(Sorry no punctuation there )

I agree. This is a better poll for the MSN to pick up on than the Pink News rubbish one with a totally vague question.

MSM

I don't think gender identity has to be linked to biological sex and I'm gender critical. It's a question that presupposes a particular set of beliefs so the answers are completely meaningless.

I don't believe in gender identity as an innate thing, but I accept that others do. Therefore I don't prescribe that those who do believe in gender identity must link their gender identity with their sex.

It would be like an atheist having to answer a question on whether God minds if we go to church or not.

None of this is particularly important until the point where other people's rights get infringed.

Yes. I roll my eyes at people being "opposed to self-ID". Why would I be opposed to someone's self-image? Something in their head?

The problem with self-ID is attempts to get it put into UK law and how that will lead to a conflict with women's rights. There's also the problem of companies and institutions acting as though this has already happened.

It would be like an atheist having to answer a question on whether God minds if we go to church or not.

Yes I thought that. Where was the "I don't believe in innate gender identity" option?

For a lot of people surveyed, transgenderism will be an abstract concept, not one they have thought about deeply. Most won't have had reason to consider the nuanced definitions or the very individual ways people consider themselves trans.

Most people are also kind and support people living their lives as they choose - the position many of us on these boards started from.

In a very different topic, I have worked for a long time with people with terminal illness and been involved in helping people to make choices at the end of their lives. There is an oft quoted statistic that 80% of people wish to die in their own homes but only 20% actually do. The problem with that trope is that the original people asked were well and not actively facing the reality of dying. So saying "I want to die at home in my bed" isn't real, because it isn't what is happening to them at that moment. And later, when they face ill health, immobility and needing assistance with basic needs, a lot of people actually make different choices.

In a similar way, I suspect this survey reflects what people think they ought to think and not a considered answer. My sense is that when people understand the transgender debate, they are not uncritical supporters and are more likely to be GC.

For a lot of people surveyed, transgenderism will be an abstract concept, not one they have thought about deeply. Most won't have had reason to consider the nuanced definitions or the very individual ways people consider themselves trans.

Most people are also kind and support people living their lives as they choose - the position many of us on these boards started from.

In a very different topic, I have worked for a long time with people with terminal illness and been involved in helping people to make choices at the end of their lives. There is an oft quoted statistic that 80% of people wish to die in their own homes but only 20% actually do. The problem with that trope is that the original people asked were well and not actively facing the reality of dying. So saying "I want to die at home in my bed" isn't real, because it isn't what is happening to them at that moment. And later, when they face ill health, immobility and needing assistance with basic needs, a lot of people actually make different choices.

In a similar way, I suspect this survey reflects what people think they ought to think and not a considered answer. My sense is that when people understand the transgender debate, they are not uncritical supporters and are more likely to be GC.

If what is meant by “transgender” wasn’t defined at the beginning, isn’t all a bit pointless? If people don’t all share the same baseline information from which to answer the question, how can you get an accurate response?

Jeeeez

Thanks for the link.

So the response to the question:

1. should transgender people be able to use the changing rooms /toilets according to the gender they identify with = 25% no. A clear minority. More think yes - be kind.

Compared to

1. Should adult males with a penis who identify as women be able to use female changing rooms /toilets. Clear majority 80-85% say no. Of course not. Are you insane??!!!

Framing and clarity is everything. That’s why we need sunlight and Stonewall needs #nodebate.

I really posted as this will be one of those reference points that other people in the media will use.

They really didn't survey that many people did they. Is 1,000+ really thought to be a representative sample.

I wonder how much it costs to get IPSOS to do a survey. Maybe we should all crowdfund for one where mumsnetters set the questions.

(I do wonder how they choose participants. For instance I'm on the YouGov list, but never - or very rarely - get surveys about politics, but am always seeing the results of YouGov surveys claiming to represent peoples view on politics.)

I think the fact that a quarter of people don't even know what they think about current trans rights legislation says a lot. The issues have been reported in a very one sided way, and these people aren't specifically against gender identity, or one suspects they would be in the group that says legislation has gone too far. But they still can't support it. They're still, at the very least, on the fence about the laws being passed.

One in four people don't feel informed enough to take a stance. What that tells me is that they sense they're only getting one side of the issue, and on a gut level they're wary of what they're being told.

I agree, contactus. It's more feasible to claim them for the no's than the yeses.