The Guardian job cuts

[MummBraTheEverLeaking]

twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283351434717782016?s=19

A lot comments standing up for women. What was that phrase again, go woke.....?

I must admit, I don't remember anything past Growing Pains.
I do remember Bert Baxter with his beetroot sandwiches that used to stain the bedsheets though. I can't imagine LOJ trooping round there to clean an old pensioner's house the way Adrian did 😂

So many of these comments I agree with, I'll also add the way it treats working class people as if they are some strange, alien species.

@Violetparis

So many of these comments I agree with, I'll also add the way it treats working class people as if they are some strange, alien species.

They are, they're intelligent and realistic and tell it like it is. Shockin😁g

That truth being a collective discovery line bothers me too tbh.

@WeeBisom

Why does Ben, and others like him, always urge women to speak to trans women (“understand the difficulty of their identity, their joys, their fears”) like this is some kind of panacea that will magically make women think that males can change sex? Incidentally, I’ve known two women (plus myself) who became even more gender critical after talking to trans women because of the way they behaved! Yes, Ben, we have spoken to trans people and we still don’t think they’ve changed sex!

I really wonder this as well. Are they assuming many of us don't know any?

I have a longtime family friend who was one of the first people here to have reassignment surgery in the late 70s, this is someone I have known since I was 19 and interacted socially with weekly since then - as she's very elderly and was shut in during the pandemic my son sent her some letters.

Why the heck would anyone think being critical of proposed changes to the law, or medical approaches to kids, or queer theory, means not having talked to any trans people?

I feel torn because I do sometimes read the Guardian and would like to subscribe but like other posters say, there's also no way in hell I'm contributing to Owen Jones's salary.

I was particularly irritated recently by a Gabi Hinscliff article in the Guardian about a Goop series on Netflix. Apparently it was groundbreaking, laudable stuff that in this Goop program we got to see a woman's vulva and watch her masturbate and have an orgasm.

I mean, there's just nowhere else we can watch that sort of stuff, is there - Naked women doing sexual things? Truly groundbreaking and amazing. (/sarcasm)

So the Guardian's sex positive and pro porn angle grates on me.

@Apileofballyhoo

That truth being a collective discovery line bothers me too tbh.

Science and exploration are things that are about collective discovery. However we can also lose these ideas and concepts too if we are blinded by ideology and belief.

I find it fascinating that when you look back at history we see examples in Mayan culture or Egyptian culture for example that much later civilisations didn't know. Or stuff from the Islamic Enlightenment period preserved because it was translated from books from other cultures but ceased to exist in the original culture.

Humans frequently dismiss ideas they consider to be outdated or backward only to return to them in the future.

For example, I think that we will find that old ways and ideas about farming for example, will return as over farming and mass production farming creates problems and exhausts the land, but old land management, crop rotation and companion planting techniques maybe able to overcome some of those problems (though the issue here is the knowledge being not widely known anymore).

Perceived wisdom for one time does not necessarily persist indefinitely.

It's the adage about progress not necessarily being linear nor straightforward.

@DianasLasso

One of the weirdest discoveries for me in the last few years is that the Telegraph (I took out a sub in a "know your enemy" sort of spirit after Trump's victory in the US) is streets ahead of the Graun in its coverage of women in business, women in the workplace and women's sports (better than pretty much anywhere else when it comes to women's sports). They're actually surprisingly sound on coverage of sexual and domestic violence too (barring a few odd op-ed pieces - but as I've said elsewhere, I would rather have a plurality of views even if some of them are shite than the McCarthyite woke-fest single voice that is the Graun).

I noticed this too about the Telegraph. Weird as it sounds, I consider them more feminist than the Guardian.

@DianasLasso

OMG - has anyone ever seen Adrian Mole and Lil' OJ in the same place at the same time? I think we're onto something here.

and stopped doing all the housework for him and his dad

Did he grow up to employ a (female) cleaner, but claim that it was his flatmate what made him do it? 😂 😂 😂

ha ha ha this made me go looking for this punchline, which I had missed:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/owen-jones-comes-off-worse-in-row-over-paying-cleaners

Back at the time, I posted somewhere on this site something like: no way does he actually physically do cleaning. no way does he do cleaning a real sense that means it actually gets done, he sets his alarm to get up at 7 and cracks on and gets through a long list of proper chores, like women with jobs and no cleaners have to do, and as such, he is not qualified to say a fucking word.

"when you live with other people you have to make compromises." well yes, of some sort. But if you want to avoid paying a cleaner, Jones, and you live with people who don't want to live in filth, one available "compromise" is "do all the fucking cleaning yourself, consistently, without complaining about it, at the expense of your own job, career, hobbies, and / or sleep, perhaps at the expense of your children - oh not in your case, you don't have any, so jolly good that's one set of people who won't be losing out in that case". You could, in other words, do exactly what you implicitly demand women do. Clean, for everyone, to keep the peace.

OR you could get a pro. You could find someone who has chosen to be self-employed, doing something they are good at and charging a fair fee, and is master / mistress of their destiny; and support that person's business and be a good honest respectful client and have a decent, dignified working relationship.

what would be wrong with that? Nothing, I suppose - if you do it

Can anyone enlighten me as to what the Billy Bragg article at the Guardian was about? I've Googled it but can't find anything that looks like it might be what people are referring to.

@wildone84 www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/10/free-speech-young-people

"when you live with other people you have to make compromises." well yes, of some sort.

Absolutely. And maybe you don't think a cleaner is a great idea but it's best to let it go.

But then don't write articles slagging other people about cleaners.

[quote CourtneyLurve]@wildone84 www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/10/free-speech-young-people[/quote]
Thank you

But then don't write articles slagging other people about cleaners.

But then what would there be left for OJ to write about, if we imposed a strict "no hypocrisy" clause?

Apparently everyone who commented is a sock puppet and we should not be mistaken for real women. Although what is a real women according to them. It will be interesting to see how many people unsubscribe after this.

mobile.twitter.com/pennyb/status/1283759102284439556

I’m blocked. Who’d have guessed.

The scary part is, they probably believe that, and there are groups online who use bots and algorithms etc to their advantage.

I don't know why you'd assume it's the mums and women on mumsnet rather than the IT squad on the other side, but there you go.

It seems a reach to say that Mumsnet has a brigade 😬. How many regularly post on the Feminist section? It only feels like a handful of people and a few friendly TRAs. I’m sure it was shocking to see the ratios on that thread though, even I was 😮

Mumsnet have ordered a swarm 😆😆

Justine in MNHQ:

And not everyone who posts on here has a Twitter account. I don't. I just read the replies to Ben, giggling.

No, I don't use twitter either, I just read threads linked to from here. When they will load, which they often don't. Maybe the TRAs are surprised by the numbers because the guardian bloke isn't shielded by terfblocker or whatever?

I have two accounts, but I only use them to "like" and professionally. I never post GC comments or retweet.

@SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito

And not everyone who posts on here has a Twitter account. I don't. I just read the replies to Ben, giggling.

Same. Not having a Twitter account is the equivalent of sitting on my hands in a meeting. There’s so much asinine rubbish on Twitter I wouldn’t be able to stop myself commenting & it would be a never-ending timesink.

I don’t use Twitter. My DP does and only watches car related shit 🙄