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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

He fathered a child using his eggs...

42 replies

GCmiddle · 11/07/2020 13:13

Taken from yesterday's Pride Power list , referring to trans man Jake Graf - apparently, he "recently fathered a child using his eggs that were frozen pre-transition".
This level of gaslighting is really pissing me off now!

OP posts:
Broomfondle · 11/07/2020 16:47

@NearlyGranny
Yep I'm quite aware of what looking at genetics throws up for families.
Also how difficult it is for some people to piece their family tree together from records.
Just because of non-paternity etc there's no excuse to make it harder for the child in this scenario. At least birth certs were pretty guaranteed to reflect who gave you your X chromosome. Not so if gender identity means a woman 'fathered' their child. We need to record medical facts not patient's opinions.

FannyCann · 11/07/2020 17:00

They are key supporters of the changes in surrogacy laws. Want legal parentage at birth so they don't have to worry about the mother changing her mind etc

TimeWastingButFun · 11/07/2020 17:02

I'm sure all this is to tie our heads up into knots.

FannyCann · 11/07/2020 17:09

Just to derail slightly about surrogacy, as this is something I only discovered in the last couple of days thanks to some dogged FOI work by another FWR poster.

The OASIS Surrogacy strategy document (sorry, can't remember what the acronym stands for) produced by the Law Commission lists Surrogacy UK as a key influencers.

Surrogacy UK had university of Kent produce a report for them, Further evidence for reform.
In this report they cite key aims which include the demand that public funding (NHS obv) should be made available for surrogacy related fertility treatment in the UK and to pay UK surrogate expenses.

This is already happening in Scotland and Wales.

He fathered a child using his eggs...
He fathered a child using his eggs...
He fathered a child using his eggs...
RealisticRay · 11/07/2020 17:28

Jake and Hannah’s baby girl is adorable and they will grow up in a house full of love. Undoubtedly. I think they are both very keen to present themselves as beacons of hope to other trans people - that they too can have their own children via surrogacy or by birthing their own babies whilst maintaining their self-identity as fathers/husbands.

I think Jake and Hannah are an extremely exceptional trans couple. They are both successful and have done very glossy, ‘aspirational’ photo shoots. Most of the photos/videos on Jake Graf’s Instagram are of them holding and feeding their baby (I think they are doing the lion’s share of day-to-day parenting while Hannah works from home) and they look so connected and besotted.

I guess that’s testament to the fact that Jake went through the whole, traumatic procedure of having to stop testosterone so that their eggs could be harvested, and then the selection and procurement of donor sperm so that the eggs could be fertilised and the resultant embryos frozen. They said that ironically the physical features they requested/preferred that the anonymous sperm donor possess, matched closely to Hannah’s - apparently the sperm donor also worked in the science field, and Hannah has a ‘scientific’ brain. Jake was Hannah’s 1st ever date. They must believe themselves to be so incredibly lucky to have found one another. Also incredibly lucky that their embryo implantation into their surrogate mother was a success first time too.

What I’m uncomfortable about is that their connection to Mermaids means that lots of young people will look at them and think they can have all that too. When in reality, with the pressure to unquestioningly affirm trans children and prescribe puberty blockers, many, many children will not be able to have children using their own sperm or eggs. They will not have gone through their own sex’s puberty. Even if the option of coming off the blockers and harvesting eggs is offered, I remember well the CBBC programme about Leo who was a young teenage trans boy (11 or 12 I think when we first saw them?) - we saw them attending an appointment to discuss this egg harvesting procedure and they ended up in tears because they couldn’t bear to go through such an invasive procedure that involved their female sex anatomy. It really emphasised their immaturity and how detached they were from the practical realities and impact of transitioning and the long term implications. It was just too much for them. Yet taking puberty blockers and then testosterone was deemed to be within their decision-making capability?

I think this has to be discussed. But it’s hard without it being deemed to be ‘hating’ on this couple. I don’t hate Jake and Hannah at all - they look like wonderful parents. But I do wish there was more honesty about this. Jake Graf speaks directly to trans children through their involvement with Mermaids. My only hope is that their story might encourage children and parents to wait until at least 18 before taking any decisions that could irreversibly affect fertility - to encourage puberty to happen - to enable children the same chance that Jake has had to hold their own child. If this is an outcome of having role models like Jake and Hannah within the transgender community, then at least this would be something.

NearlyGranny · 11/07/2020 18:06

It's tough enough for infertile couples to get a round or two of IVF funded; it's a bit of a postcode lottery. I honestly can't see the costs of surrogacy being funded through the NHS. If it were funded for trans parents, a precedent would be set and the demand from trans and non-trans parents could incur astronomical levels. A surrogate would expect to be compensated for loss of earnings, I guess? Although commercial surrogacy is not legal in the UK, is it?

NearlyGranny · 11/07/2020 18:13

I wonder why Hannah didn't just carry a child with donor sperm?

AnotherEmma · 11/07/2020 18:16

I would have thought it's obvious why a trans man would not want to gestate and birth a baby. It might not even be possible or medically advisable, post transition?

I have more difficulty understanding why a trans man would want to do it tbh! Pregnancy and childbirth are hard enough when you identify as a woman!

FloralBunting · 11/07/2020 18:17

NearlyGranny, that would be because Hannah is not a female person and has never had or will have the ability to carry a child.

AnotherEmma · 11/07/2020 18:18

Oh sorry, got my wires crossed. I thought you were referring to Jake. But you clearly wrote Hannah Blush

FloralBunting · 11/07/2020 18:20

The Grafs are essentially a celebrity trans couple, selling a fantasy. I don't 'hate' them, I am indifferent to them as people. But I do think they are part and parcel of a destructive lie.

NearlyGranny · 11/07/2020 18:28

Yeah, I looked at their insta accounts and I get it now!

FannyCann · 11/07/2020 18:28

I honestly can't see the costs of surrogacy being funded through the NHS.

It already is, in Scotland and Wales.

FannyCann · 11/07/2020 18:29

Surrogacy on the NHS www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3899297-Surrogacy-on-the-NHS

NearlyGranny · 11/07/2020 18:31

I guess all sorts of people have idealistic role models of some sort or other dangled in front of us to tantalise us and engender feelings of inadequacy. Whole industries depend on people aspiring to perfection of some sort or another. 🤷🏼‍♀️

FloralBunting · 11/07/2020 19:03

True, but the Grafs are the shiny happy face of huge medical and surgical interventions, stunted physical and mental development of young people drawn into the worldview, infertility and exploiting a woman as a surrogate. I don't really care how pleasant the picture of family life they present. The consequences for others are massive.

ChattyLion · 11/07/2020 19:12

And surrogacy in the US, where the woman carrying the baby is subject to a binding legal contracts (which they are not in the UK) has now been funded by the NHS (from a case brought in England) after a diagnostic mistake cost a woman her natural reproductive capacity. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3769869-Woman-asking-nhs-to-pay-for-US-surrogacy

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