Trans in schools

[Mooncupdotcom]

Been trying to get together a list of questions I'd like to ask of schools or similar places, and having no joy in person or on another social network media site (purposefully vague...) and keep getting the same old accusations of straw man/ transphobia/TERF...

What happens if a student misuses self id, eg a boy demanding access to female spaces?
How would pshce lessons work eg period talk, where single sex lessons are used at times?
What happens if a member of staff is trans with self id or a grc- changing room supervision, delivering pshce lessons, single sex accommodation on overnight trips etc?
What is pupils using a disabled now renames unisex toilet means a disabled pupil has to wait or be denied access?
What about a girl id ing as a boy and wanting to play contact sports like rugby? Could staff refuse?

Will staff be compelled to use preferred pronouns? Fellow students? What if they won't? What if people with autism misgender others not on purpose?

Anyone else wonder all this?
Had a bruising day trying to discuss this elsewhere tonight no avail.

Do you want answers from schools on that or the legal positions OP?

Have you been to the Safe Schools Alliance website for their resources or their Twitter for the latest?

It's probably the best place to start for more info but someone will be along in a minute with more...

(Also check the school policies online.)

Thanks @OhHolyJesus.
Yes I've seen the SSA and have asked the establishments I'm involved with through work or my own kids. Had no answers though.
Would love more legal links, that would be really helpful.
Sorry to be so vague.
Really dismal day rebutting some horrible comments online.

Transgender Trend has excellent resources.

There's a huge amount of defensiveness about all this Mooncupdotcom. Schools have unwittingly introduced all manner of unsuitable people / organisations into schools with no due diligence (think Peter Tatchell etc)
I think the trick is to be as concrete as possible - use clear evidence about groups eroding safeguarding, promoting parental alienation and introducing porn / sexual age inappropriate information (like the Proud Trust). The SSA material is excellent for this.

What is happening is completely unacceptable and schools need to be aware of the potential consequences of giving unsuitable adults and groups access to our children. We need to be absolutely clear with schools that we will take action if children are coerced and gaslighted or exposed to porn by these groups.

@truthisarevolutionaryact

There's a huge amount of defensiveness about all this Mooncupdotcom. Schools have unwittingly introduced all manner of unsuitable people / organisations into schools with no due diligence (think Peter Tatchell etc) I think the trick is to be as concrete as possible - use clear evidence about groups eroding safeguarding, promoting parental alienation and introducing porn / sexual age inappropriate information (like the Proud Trust). The SSA material is excellent for this.

What is happening is completely unacceptable and schools need to be aware of the potential consequences of giving unsuitable adults and groups access to our children. We need to be absolutely clear with schools that we will take action if children are coerced and gaslighted or exposed to porn by these groups.

I've bookmarked and sent your reply to myself @truthisarevolutionaryact such a good reply. Very "quotable" actually. Thank you. This is a good thread because I've been asking my son's new school questions too. They're not woke and don't appear to have been captured and also responded very quickly and fairly to my emails and questions, which bodes well.

I used the SSA red flags document and PHSE template to write to my primary school about the new RSE coming this September. I also gave them some of the Transgender Trend documents. I took these in as paper copies. Honestly I couldn't have done what I did without these documents, for one I wouldn't have had the confidence. I am do grateful to SSA and Transgender Trend.

I started my meeting with the head who was determined to use the word gender. I didn't convince him my way completely about using sex not gender but I saw him skim reading the SSA red flags document and getting it. I'm pleased to say the new policy uses sex not gender so my consultation worked. This means girls will only get taught by a female about periods and will be sex segregated for sex ed etc. My school has also chosen and stated in its policy that it has no intention of going 'above and beyond' what the government wants. This makes me wonder all those schools who are going 'above and beyond' where are they getting their extra funds from?
www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/
I believe even if a person has a GRC the sex based exemptions still apply but we didn't go that far in our discussions so I will be interested to have a legal viewpoint on this?

Sadly it appears that the legal route is the one that has the most impact. I loathe seeing schools threatened and dragged into court. However the speed with which local authorities removed their trans guidelines show that they are not prepared to defend policies that misrepresent the law and force unwilling girls to undress, shower and share dormitories & toilets with boys self identifying as girls.
If schools have so little care for their female students then it's up to parents to force them to care and have respect for the rights to privacy, safety and dignity. Schools have a choice. Those who make poor choice for girls (and ultimately for boys), instead pandering to adult male demands deserve to be named and shamed until they apply the law.

Hi Female I read this the other day and I thought it was a useful piece about discrimination and how laws are applied.

womansplaceuk.org/2020/07/02/legally-this-is-not-a-trans-rights-issue-its-a-sex-rights-issue-a-blog-about-boxes-audrey-ludwig/

Something to look out for is how UK law and EHRC uses different terms. The EHRC guidance on this is long overdue now.

Anyway, in regards to your very sensible, worthy questions, based on my understanding, I'm not a lawyer and sadly cannot provide legal links but I hope this is useful:

What happens if a student misuses self id, eg a boy demanding access to female spaces?

The school could deny and ask the boy who says he is trans to change on his own. But Leo Waddle spoke of how the school was approached by Press for Change and they were 'forced' to treat Leo as a boy, and a couple of weeks ago, at the Black Trans Lives Matter march a girl who says he is a boy was applauded with the news the same had happened in the school (Katie) attended.

Schools need to understand they can say no and seek a compromise.

How would pshce lessons work eg period talk, where single sex lessons are used at times?

The school will have a policy on this, I think both mixed and single sex lessons are taught for PSCHE. You can opt out until 3 terms before the child turns 16. From Sept you can't opt out of RSE though, but I think there might be a delay on this due to Covid and schools not being able to consult with parents...?

What happens if a member of staff is trans with self id or a grc- changing room supervision, delivering pshce lessons, single sex accommodation on overnight trips etc?

Male teachers are not meant to be the only adult in rooms where girls change (sometimes it s a classroom not a changing as such) for a teachers own protection against accusations of misconduct. (I think)

The case of girl guides is key in the question for overnights, risk assessments and insurance policies apply and I think I heard very recently about a girl who thinks she is a boy, being denied sleeping accommodation with the boys and had a delegate room that the school paid extra for.

What is pupils using a disabled now renames unisex toilet means a disabled pupil has to wait or be denied access?

This would be discrimination against the disabled pupil surely?

What about a girl id ing as a boy and wanting to play contact sports like rugby? Could staff refuse?

Yes on the grounds of safety. At 8 yo kids are in separate (old NSPCC guidelines), single sex toilet facilities and sports is single sex in puberty for obvious reasons. To allow it would require a risk assessment and health insurance surely? I've haven't heard of this happening at a school but most UK sports groups do apply self ID. (British gymnastics etc)

Will staff be compelled to use preferred pronouns? Fellow students? What if they won't? What if people with autism misgender others not on purpose?

Not schools but a teenage boy on the spectrum did get a fine for asking a question of a community police officer who is trans

www.womenarehuman.com/autistic-teen-found-guilty-of-hate-crime-for-asking-police-officers-sex-autism-group-condemns-prosecution/

You could also look into the teaching Unions for more. Honestly I would gather all your questions and submit directly to the school HT and governors. It's a great time to do it since all this is really being questioned right now at senior government level and the trans toolkits are being withdrawn left right and centre as Truth says.

I’d start by checking you school website - they will often have things like Equality and LGBT policies published in there. Read through them and see if anything triggers questions for you, then make contact with the pastoral/Safeguarding lead.

For PHSCE you need to ask the PHSE lead to see the policy. Schools are in the process of updating their policies right now as they were due to push out a new system for September 2020, but this has been pushed back until June 2021. However some schools are still aiming for Sept as they had already started the work. As part of the new system they are required to consult with parents on the policy, so make it known that you want to be a part of the consultation.

I asked some of these questions of the Head of PSHE at our local secondary and this was the result:

1. it’ll never happen because teenage boys wouldn’t do that and the girls wouldn’t let them (not sure how any of that works)
2. I didn’t ask that specifically
3. it won’t happen - no man is going to transition and get a job in a school to get at young girls - a ridiculous suggestion
4. I didn’t ask about the disabled toilets but transitioning kids will use the toilet for their preferred gender so not applicable
5. it’ll be fine - (bear in mind that the child currently being transitioned by the school without the involvement of the parents is ftm (surprise) so physically I guess wouldn’t be an injury risk for the boys sports.) but mtf in with the girls would be fine’ as would changing with the girls as they don’t take any messing (!)
6. no one would be so unkind as to misgender - we didn’t discuss sanctions but it would be frowned upon. I asked about the threshold for the school to start a child on the transitioning route (I was thinking to prevent issues relating to Q1) and there was a very vague response that they basically haven’t really thought about that but it sounded like a conversation and some distress would be adequate. I can’t ask any more questions because the conversation went full TWAW and don’t be mean to trans etc. Wine and conversations like that with friends don’t always end well.

No child can have a GRC so in schools pupils should remain sex segregated and girls should not accept males in their spaces. Though we know the Equality Act 2010 which protects sex and gender reassignment has been misrepresented in favour of children who want to identify differently with no Equality Impact Assessments or risk assessment.
Adults with GRC is concerning and I don't know enough about that. Abuse may be rare but it is not zero.

I have started off gently by asking dd's school to change their equality policy from gender to sex. No reply yet. I want to arrange a meeting to discuss rse and pshe but I feel guilty when there is so much stress on heads at the moment.